r/politics 7d ago

'This Is Unacceptable': Progressives Reject Manchin Proposal to Cut $15 Minimum Wage Proposal to $11 | "The $15 minimum wage is overwhelmingly popular with the American people. One person should not be allowed to hold relief hostage."

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2021/02/23/unacceptable-progressives-reject-manchin-proposal-cut-15-minimum-wage-proposal-11
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u/CryingBuffaloNickel 7d ago

“Minimum wage means if I could pay you less I would.” - Chris Rock

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u/Fiscalfossil Washington 7d ago

Let’s be real, if companies could pay people with company scrip they definitely would.

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u/jakestheman76 7d ago

Let's be real if they could have slaves they absolutely would! Hell in some countries these corporations literally do have slaves!

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u/SnakeDoctur 7d ago

MANY "major corporations" use indentured servitude in places like Bangladesh, China, India, Dubai etc etc. Out of sight out of mind.

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u/bstheory 7d ago edited 6d ago

US too, by way of our prison system. Thanks 13th Amendment

Edit: This blew up a bit, so here's my main source which I highly recommend - the Netflix movie 13th, by Ava DuVernay (https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/13th)

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u/cryptotechnologic 7d ago

Also debt in general, which is of course highly promoted as the only way to be successful and purchased via college by young 18 year olds just starting their lives.

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u/GenocideOwl 7d ago

highly promoted as the only way to be successful and purchased via college by young 18 year olds just starting their lives.

they have been doing that long before college kids got taken to the woodshed over loans.

Hell our entire lending industry for the past 100 years has been basing your "value" on how reliably you borrow money. You can not even get a house(sans some cash deal) unless you have a decent history of borrowing and repayment. Not even to mention what happens if you go through a rough patch and need bankruptcy or even miss a few payments. Credit Bureaus will mark you for life over that shit.

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u/Modredastal 7d ago

But the corporations go through a "rough patch" and get enough money to solve any problem shoveled at them.

Out of our pockets.

Where's that fucking reset button?

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u/sumgamunga 7d ago

Socialism for the rich, rugged capitalism for the rest -Bernie Sanders

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u/TrespasseR_ 7d ago

Damn right, oh noone flying your airline anymore?? Here, we have billions set aside for you!!

Can I get $15/hr?? WTF???GTFO and don't ever ask that question again!

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u/coldchixhotbeer California 7d ago

When I paid off my student loan my credit score went down because I “closed the account”. Riddle me that!

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u/artillarygoboom 7d ago

Also unpaid internships.

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u/Mini-Marine Oregon 7d ago

Those are more of a way of gatekeeping certain jobs to make sure only those with enough generational wealth to support them can get in

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u/mw19078 7d ago

Lots of places use them as free expandable labor though as well.

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u/BehaviouralSink 7d ago

You are both correct.

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u/Im_da_machine 7d ago

Some companies like Nestle use not just indentured servants but straight up slaves. Children are especially targeted by the modern slave trade

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u/fappyboyjohnson 7d ago

Can you list a few? I want to know so I can avoid them like the plague.

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u/kyredemain 7d ago

Nestle is known for this. Specifically they are part of a child slavery case right now.

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u/mregecko 7d ago

More accurately, Nestle and other major chocolate brands have been evading lawsuits over the use of child slavery in the chocolate industry for 20+ years.

It has been cycles of scrutiny, empty promises by them to fix it, and then reverting back to their old behavior.

Never buy from Nestle/Mars/Etc. Get fair trade chocolates!

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u/pipnina 7d ago

Fair trade isn't all it's cracked up to be, there is a lot of criticism and it seems in many cases we pay more money for the Fairtrade brand that funds middlemen businesses and not farmers. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_trade

What is really needed is governments to strong arm anti slavery import policies - can't prove it wasn't entirely made with paid labour? It doesn't come into the country.

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u/JanetSnakehole720 7d ago

From what I’ve read, clothing is the worst industry (namely fast fashion).

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u/Lee1138 Norway 7d ago

Probably all of them. Either directly, or by not looking too closely at how subcontracting companies sourcing their labour.

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u/PSA_Daykeras 7d ago

As recently as 2008 Walmart was doing this in Mexico: https://www.reuters.com/article/mexico-walmex-idUSN0546591320080905

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u/Snwspider 7d ago

Uh even as recent as this year, Hershey’s and a couple other candy companies are getting sued for child slavery https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/12/mars-nestle-and-hershey-to-face-landmark-child-slavery-lawsuit-in-us

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u/zephyrsummer 7d ago

Anyone interested in this should listen to Behind the Bastards podcast on the Battle of Blair mountain- a mining strike in America escalated to the point where the national guard was called in. The strikers were campaigning for fair wages, and an end to among other things, and I cannot stress this enough their wives and daughters being prostituted by the company to pay debts for company scrip.

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u/KrookedDoesStuff 7d ago

You should see what they’re doing here in Nevada. Trying to pass a bill that would allow big tech companies to own and operate their own cities.

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u/spritelass 7d ago

These were called company towns back in the day. You paid the company for your housing your groceries etc. Your whole paycheck would go right back to the company. It's a horribly abusive system.

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u/velveteenelahrairah United Kingdom 7d ago edited 7d ago

You load sixteen tons, what do you get? Another day older, and deeper in debt. St Peter don't you call me cause I can't go, I owe my soul to the company store

  • Merle Travis, 1946.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

ETA Apparently half of r Pol made the exact same comment. I'd laugh if the whole situation wasn't so depressing.

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u/relator_fabula 7d ago

owe my soul to the company store

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u/UnitGhidorah 7d ago

This is what I always remind people. It's completely horrible.

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u/Tomnnn 7d ago

I think there's another reason. Rich people want the ceiling high and the floor low. They aren't just rich because they're at the top, they are also rich because the floor is low. If minimum wage doubles, the floor rises and their relative mountain of wealth looks just a little bit smaller.

For most of society, this is a good thing. For the human dragons sleeping on their pile of gold, it's a tragedy.

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u/Lazermissile 7d ago

So Senator Manchin said "we can do $11 in two years and be in a better position than they're going to be with $15 in five years." but The Raise the Wage Act would increase the pay floor to $9.50 an hour this year, then to $11 next year. That's already in the bill and doesn't require an amendment.

What he wants to stop is the remaining hikes: The minimum wage would rise to $12.50 per hour in 2023, $14 in 2024 and then $15 in 2025.

There's also a provision to tie the minimum wage to the median wage growth to avoid another issue like this.

I think he's a twat for taking this position.

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u/Nearfall21 7d ago

here's also a provision to tie the minimum wage to the median wage growth to avoid another issue like this.

This is what needs to be done! Inflation hurts the minimum wage worker more than anyone else. But the rest of us still are impacted, and i wish it was considered more.

Average inflation is around 2% per year. Average salary raises are around 3% per year. So while I get a raise and make more money, i really only get to bank 1% more than i did the previous year.

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u/MarsupialRage 7d ago

At least you get COL raises. My job we get nothing so I just lose money every year

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u/AgtSquirtle007 California 7d ago

Average salary raises are 3% per year somebody tell my employer.

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u/Nearfall21 7d ago

You should tell your employer.

I actually broke it down for one of my bosses a few years ago when we were having an "off the record" conversation. We had a couple employees leave and I was saying it wasn't exactly his fault, it was just corporate america.

Average salary increase if you go to a competitors company after 3-5 years in your current company is 15%. Average raise per year if you stay is 3%.

Thus if I leave after 5 years in my role, work for the competitor for 5 years and then come back. I will have increased my salary by an additional 30% than if i had just stayed.

Our company does other things to keep us happy, so i told him i was not going anywhere. And i still am not. We have a great culture here. But i made it clear the decision was because I valued my happiness at work more than i valued my bank account. But most people would rather suffer to make more. Thus our team losing people at the 3-5 year mark.

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u/adotfree 7d ago

Any Congressperson that believes we don't need a $15 minimum wage needs to 1)be forced to live on the wage they believe is acceptable (without help from their family or giant bank accounts, although I'd be nice and give them access to a month's worth of $11/hr net pay in their checking and saving's account to start with) and 2)needs to be excluded from all COL raises that Congress applies to themselves.

The minimum wage needs to be tied to median wage growth. But barring that, Congress should not be allowed to give themselves a COL raise without also adjusting the minimum wage. If $174k isn't enough for them, then $15k DEFINITELY is not enough for the rest of us.

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u/timmytimmytimmy33 7d ago edited 7d ago

What he wants is to look like he's hitting back against progressives / "the Democrats" while doing minimum damage to the bill. It's why he ultimately "caved" on income limits ("we need to pass it fast, but it's a little lower than the last one") on the stimulus, and why he's agreeing to the same amount here but making it sound lower by passing this now.

this is something he can sell to WV. $15 is going to be painted as an AOC NYC thing. Even though it's the same steps to 9.50 and $11, and we can fight for $15 again at that point.

Manchin has won in WV because he understands the power of messaging.

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u/pensezbien 7d ago

So maybe he'll be okay proposing the amendment, having progressives get publicly angry, having the amendment fail, making an angry floor speech and press release about the rejection of his amendment and how the minimum wage got tied into the broader relief bill, and voting in favor of the final bill anyway because he recognizes the value and urgency of COVID relief?

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u/DarkHotline Missouri 7d ago

Succinctly accurate

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u/Meta_Digital Texas 7d ago

If capitalism worked, a minimum wage wouldn't be necessary.

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u/Keemsel 7d ago

Capitalism does what it is supposed to. The results simply arent what all people want from an economic system. But it works as intended.

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u/patb2015 7d ago

The Texas ERCOT market worked as intended

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u/Space-Robo24 7d ago

Read a great Reuters article about ERCOT. In theory the entire idea behind the system was to incentivize companies to make investments in their disaster preparedness with the promise that they could make huge profits by charging more to keep the lights on in a disaster. What did they do instead? They saved money by not winterizing and not doing any kind of disaster prep. Then they went and charged ridiculous prices for power anyway. Win-win for the utilities, lose-lose for society. This is why we regulate markets, to force groups to follow the spirit of the law whether they want to or not.

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u/Rocksurly 7d ago

Yeah, people seem to forget that capitalism has "capitalize" right there in the name. Capitalize is synonymous with exploit. Exploitation is baked into the ideology. I've had libertarians actually argue with me on this point so here's a link to a thesaurus for any of you who think otherwise.

"Capitalize Synonyms, Capitalize Antonyms | Thesaurus.com" https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/capitalize

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u/Na-Kreygasm-2-Burger 7d ago

People have been brainwashed into thinking if you have a problems with capitalism then it automatically means you’re a communist lmao

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u/CABRALFAN27 Texas 7d ago

Not even just problems with capitalism as a concept, but even restrictions/regulations of it. Like, there can be a middle ground between Communism and a fucking Banana Republic.

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u/ddawn19yi 7d ago

How did we get here at the end of February and still debating the stimulus bill?

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u/Doomsday31415 Washington 7d ago

Because there's only 50 Democrats in the Senate, so it takes 100% of them.

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u/sonofjim 7d ago

This is the one thing that republicans do right. They fall in line and don’t have one or two black sheep. They are able to push through shit that Democrats fail at.

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u/cadium 7d ago

Mostly, they couldn't get the ACA repealed -- but tax cuts they have no problem ramming through.

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u/IrrelevantMontgomery 7d ago

....tax cuts they have no problem ramming through.

That's the equivalent of knocking over a tower of toy blocks. Of course they can accomplish the most simplistic of objectives.

Anything more is just beyond them. Can't even figure out how to eat crayons let alone repeal a bill and craft something substantive to overcome it. ...that would require vastly complex reasoning skills that acknowledge reality.

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u/funwillfunwill 7d ago

4 republicans voted against killing Obamacare and the vote ended up failing as a result. Getting rid of the ACA was the main republican talking point in the first half of the 2010s

Overall, yes, the GOP senate was successful in furthering their agenda over the last few years—but that's because they had a stronger grip on the senate and could usually pass what they wanted if they lost a couple votes. The Democrats hold a 1 seat majority and can't afford that

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u/Daniel_Av0cad0 7d ago edited 7d ago

Not a great comparison, Republicans often have at least one or two defections in the Senate, it’s just that the Democrats are in the very rare (*not unprecedented, it’s happened three times in American history) situation of having literally no margin for error.

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u/ThatB0yAintR1ght Georgia 7d ago

The republican “defectors” in the senate are always given permission to defect when they have enough votes otherwise, as it helps them maintain the illusion that they are moderate. Notice how Collins, Romney, and Murkowski never seem to defect at the same time? That’s by design. They take turns casting “no” votes so that it never actually affects the republican agenda, but it can help them in future elections when they claim to be moderates.

The only time that this wasn’t the case was when McCain voted no on the ACA repeal, and fucked over McConnell. McCain only did that because he was dying and wouldn’t have to worry about reelection.

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u/thisIsMememememe 7d ago

Because they have to do it through budget reconciliation and Democrats had a “majority”.

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u/vetaryn403 7d ago

Because Manchin is the Mitch McConnell of the Democratic Party. He is a "centrist", so if they don't have his vote, they don't have the majority. There is absolutely zero reaching across the aisle anymore and it's going to be the death of America. We are splitting into literally two factions of people. Half the country is for progressive measures, the other half for authoritarianism/unfettered capitalism.

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u/clkou 7d ago edited 7d ago

I agree with you but just to reiterate that there's no reaching across the aisle because of Republican antics started in the 90's with Newt Gingrich and it's only got worse as time has gone on.

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u/CUTookMyGrades 7d ago

He’s the 2021 version of Joe Lieberman

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u/kenrose2101 7d ago

Every group has their Lieberman. They're the guy who always says "I just ate there a few days ago" but never has another suggestion for where the group should go.

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u/baltinerdist Maryland 7d ago

This could not be more true.

The response should always be “did you hate it? Did it give you food poisoning? No? Then we’re going there because everyone else wants to.”

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u/BolshevikPower 7d ago

No idea how being a centrist makes you Mitch McConnell. That dude is a much bigger asshole.

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u/8to24 7d ago

Expertise matters. Janet Yellen worked for the Federal Reserve for 11yrs. Was Fed Chair during one of the big and most stable economic periods in the nation's history. She is for $15 minimum wage. Powell, the current fed chair (GOP appointee) has consistently refused to criticize raising the minimum wage. In arguing against minimum wage increases people are ignoring the experts.

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u/LemonFreshenedBorax- 7d ago

The Federal Reserve isn't exactly mandated to advocate for workers' interests, so if even that crowd supports $15, that means there is no coherent (or even semicoherent) economic argument against it. Let's do this.

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u/8to24 7d ago

Exactly, the fed doesn't care about minimum wage workers and even their analytics say a wage hike won't negatively impact the economy.

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u/Redtwooo 7d ago

On the contrary it will spur the economy, give it a real shot in the arm. Approximately 32 million workers would see a raise of, on average, $3300 a year, generating over $100B of wages which will likely end up going mostly into consumer spending. And that's not even taking into consideration ripple effects that will result in increasing wages for "skilled" labor.

We should also eliminate the "tipped minimum" which has been stuck at like $2 since 1991. Pay service workers a fair wage and charge appropriate prices for your goods and services.

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u/420catloveredm California 7d ago

Really want to emphasize that the tipped minimum needs to change. Servers and bartenders where I live get the normal minimum wage which in the county where I work is $15. That plus tips means that servers and bartenders are actually doing well financially. Better than some positions I’ve seen requiring degrees.

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u/kinyutaka America 7d ago

With a wage increase to $15, I would be seeing an extra $10,000 a year. Give or take.

And that's going from "not minimum wage" ($10/hr) to "new minimum wage" ($15)

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u/deadwalrus 7d ago

Actually the Fed has only 2 mandates: (1) keep inflation low and (2) keep unemployment low. They are opposing goals. It could be argued both are in workers’ interests.

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u/bittersterling 7d ago

One of the Fed’s mandate is to promote full employment. If they thought raising the minimum wage to $15 would have a material effect on employment they wouldn’t support it, or in Powell’s case he would come out and be against it.

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u/PricklyPossum21 Australia 7d ago

Conservatives and the ultra-wealthy in America have ignored experts for decades, when it suited them. Just look at climate change policy or drug policy.

And the right has been pushing anti-intellectualism more and more lately as well.

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u/Moon_Atomizer 7d ago

The Cruelty is the Point

This was the name of a famous early Trump era article, and nothing encapsulates the conservative motive more. Enjoying the suffering of those they hate and enemies isn't a side benefit of reasoned positions, the positions are discarded or changed to accommodate the main point of enjoying the suffering of those they hate and enemies.

This is why the 2020 Republican platform was literally "whatever Trump says in the moment is good I guess"

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u/Smash_4dams 7d ago edited 7d ago

Fine okay.

If so many politicians oppose $15/hr minimum wage, how about a $12/hr min wage with the standard tax deduction tripled to $36,000?

No federal taxes on the first 36k you make. Wealth would be above 15/hr at this point and republicans love tax cuts right?

Why hasnt this been proposed? A deduction encourages work, and your paychecks are automatically 10-12% bigger. Not to mention, less chance of layoffs for low wage workers. Everyone wins. A small tax on capital gains over $50mil could make up the difference.

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u/ILikeCutePuppies 7d ago

I always liked the idea of eliminating tax in the lower brackets. It would save the IRS a huge amount on audits and it could be made up in higher brackets.

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u/Joe_Jeep I voted 7d ago

Just makes sense in general.

GOP loves whining about not having to help the poor, well, just don't take their money in the first place. Taxes on the bottom 50% only make up like 4% of federal income tax anyway.

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u/MmePeignoir 7d ago

Yep. This is an actually reasonable proposal that everyone should be able to get behind. Even Milton Friedman advocated for a negative income tax; I don’t see why any principled conservative should oppose this.

Tax cuts are great. Just don’t give them only to the rich, give them to everyone instead. Hell, it wouldn’t even be a new thing, we’d just be reverting to the pre-WWII income tax structure (don’t Republicans love to reminisce about the good old days?)

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u/bobsaget824 Arizona 7d ago

Republicans love tax cuts... for the wealthy and corporations... not for working class, lol.

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u/blurrry2 I voted 7d ago

But most of them are the working class!

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u/LowestKey 7d ago

They prefer the term "temporarily embarrassed millionaires"

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u/theSoothSlayerCoC 7d ago edited 7d ago

That is a dangerous game for the GOP despite the tax cuts.

People that low on the income ladder pay taxes regularly. Upper-income folks, the real base the GOP advocates for, would be required to start closing tax loopholes and corporations would face increasing headwinds on taxes.

Remember, they want to cut taxes for upper-income folks because they are the people who give them campaign and political party money. They use lower-income folks votes by pandering to social populism.

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u/tsilihin666 California 7d ago

Yeah but then you might have a shot at the masses finally rallying for themselves instead of the rich. Dangle a tax break that actually helps them in front of their face and they'll be hooked for life. Throw in a payroll tax deduction for small businesses as well and I think you have a winner right there.

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u/DJTHatesPuertoRicans America 7d ago

Turn out for 2022 Senate Elections and you can see a 55 seat majority. Manchin's opinion means far less in that scenario.

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u/Rosaadriana 7d ago

55 Dem majority seems highly unlikely.

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u/-TheGreatLlama- 7d ago

That’s because it is. The only state that I’d say dems have better than even odds of flipping is PA. WI and NC are definitely possible with the right campaign, but it would take a monumental effort to take either OH or FL

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u/oatmealface 7d ago

We should not assume that we will win NC, FL, GA, WI, and PA, especially when there are so many efforts to suppress the vote. Turnout for Trump in 2020 was scary high and more obstacles to voting in those midterm races in those states is worrisome. PA is the only state out of those that Biden won by a healthy margin. The others Biden either lost or barely won.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/ProffesorPrick 7d ago

NC is not the one we should think can’t happen. Swinging Ohio by near 10% in 2 years? Ehhh, can’t see it happening. Dems should be happy if they get 51 or 52 seats. Especially in a mid term when they have the sitting president, any gains would be remarkable.

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u/foolthatiam 7d ago

NC almost had a chance and then Cal had to go and get a girlfriend....

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u/Animanimator 7d ago

We could have turned Thillis's seat over if Cunningham hadn't screwed us like he did that woman.

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u/Pompous_Libtard 7d ago

Same for Ohio, been more red than blue lately despite Brown's success.

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u/SipowiczNYPD 7d ago

The Michigan/Ohio State rivalry is very real. Ohio hates the color blue.

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u/mbp84 7d ago

NC has a real chance with Jeff Jackson, he’s a good man and served in the Army and is still in the National Guard. He missed the last week or two of campaigning for his state senate seat due to his NG commitment. He will get the Charlotte, Asheville and Raleigh vote so it just depends on how many he can swing in the other cities.

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u/Pnutt7 7d ago

A surprising amount of people know Jeff Jackson across the state already too. I guess because he interacts so much online with everyone. I can name him but not my own state senator

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u/dkguy12day Pennsylvania 7d ago edited 7d ago

Pa may will get 1 seat. John Fetterman is running and he should just eat his competition irl.

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u/KWilt Pennsylvania 7d ago

He should, but I wouldn't bet on it yet. The Republican Party could run a mannequin in a bad wig and Pennsyltucky would still vote for that over a Dem.

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u/altf3 Pennsylvania 7d ago

Fetterman is now a household name around here. I don't wanna count chickens before they're hatched but I can't imagine a stronger candidate

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u/cyanydeez 7d ago

Right, there's always been a conservative backlash, particularly since they're highly engaged in astroturf and partisan politics.

In 2020, republicans gained presidential votes. There's no reason to think it's a walk in the park.

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u/middleraged 7d ago

Conservatives tend to come out to midterm elections in higher numbers as well iirc

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u/meta_irl 7d ago

One very important caveat here: the 2018 midterms went very well for Democrats. Trump's coalition turned out for him, but not for the GOP.

We are be able to win any of those seats, though we probably won't win all. If we fight for it, we can win.

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u/iclimbnaked 7d ago

We definitely can but the house may end up being the challenge as well R states are going to be redrawing districts for sure.

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u/Thallis 7d ago

Historically the party in power takes a beating in the midterms.

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u/royalsanguinius 7d ago

I think GA is a safer bet than the rest because Stacey Abrams and all the activists who helped her aren’t about to sit on the sidelines for the midterms. NC, as much as I hate this freakin state, has a decent chance. Cal Cunningham almost won over Tillis (and would’ve won if he hadn’t cheated on his wife, dumbass). And with Burr retiring there’s no republican incumbent this time, I don’t know who the GOP is gonna run for that senate seat but rumor has it that the Dems are gonna run an extremely popular former judge who’s won several statewide elections already so I wouldn’t write NC odd just yet. PA, maybe they definitely have a few possible Dems who I think could win without too much trouble but you never know.

As for FL and WI...yea those are the 2 I would worry about the most in this group. FL is...well we all know what FL is, they wouldn’t vote in their own best interest even if someone was holding a gun to their head.

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u/redsoxkathleen Georgia 7d ago

Unfortunately, Georgia state legislators are currently drafting new voting regulations that will impact a lot of what helped turn Georgia blue these last few months. I'm sure people will continue to turn out in droves for Warnock, but there's no guarantee...

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u/royalsanguinius 7d ago

Oh I’m aware, and it’s no guarantee either way, but hopefully those laws aren’t able to be passed, and if they are hopefully activists like Stacey Abrams can find a way to get people registered anyway. I will say though that it’s good that it’s Warnock and not Ossoff. Black people, and I say this as a black person, are a lot more likely to turnout to vote for a black candidate like Warnock (largely because we have multiple reasons to apolitical when it comes to white candidates) and as long as most of those people can vote he stands a chance of keeping his senate seat. And honestly if Stacey Abrams runs for governor again I really think she could win as long as those laws don’t go into effect. But that’s all a big if of course and really depends on how successfulBrian Kemp and the GOP are in their efforts to suppress the black vote this time around

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u/morpipls 7d ago

Yeah, but that feels like a long shot, especially with Republicans doubling down on voter suppression, and with the Dems largely powerless to stop them so long as Manchin (and Sinema) are keeping the filibuster alive.

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u/Leftieswillrule 7d ago

So did the Dems retaking the Senate this year and then democrat voters in Georgia stood up and made it happen. Get your friends registered, remind your family of the people-friendly bills Dems have tried to pass that got shelved by Mitch McConnell. We got 2 years.

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u/broniesnstuff 7d ago

It kills me how hard we have to work in a "democracy" just so the will of the actual majority wins the day. This country is being held hostage by a minority of the population.

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u/orange_lazarus1 7d ago

That's why they need to get rid of the filibuster and pass the John Lewis Voting Rights Act.

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u/puroloco Florida 7d ago

I have my doubts about Florida Democrats. Also, the GOP will ratfuck Ohio and Georgia.

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u/durZo2209 7d ago

ohio is a republican state anyway, it hasn't been purple in 20 years

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u/Nitonovo Kansas 7d ago

While I’d agree right now the future for Ohio democrats is looking pretty bad, they voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 and reelected Sherrod Brown in 2018. It isn’t accurate to say they haven’t been a purple state in 20 years

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u/vulcanstrike 7d ago

The Dems arent going to beat a sitting Rubio in Florida, the only hope there is a MAGA crazy/Ivanka running as third party.

Ohio and Georgia are highly unlikely to pay off and Arizona will depend entirely on what opponent they put up again (and will return a fairly conservative Dem in any case)

The best the Dems can realistically hope for is 51 Senators, which isn't amazing. I don't have much confidence in North Carolina or New Hampshire either if we're really honest....

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u/BidenWontMoveLeft 7d ago

Fight for DC and PR statehood. Florida is not a swing state anymore and we need to stop pretending that it is. Even if the majority of voters turn out for Democrats, that state is so fucking corrupt that we need to go around for the time being and get leverage elsewhere.

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u/Elleralston4170 7d ago

Really wish someone would look into the registered voter rolls for Florida. The cop that killed George Floyd was a FL “resident.” I’d bet there’s hundreds of thousands registered in Florida that don’t actually live there. Somewhere there’s an apartment where 15,000 cops live...I’d bet all my GME stock on it.

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u/Quexana 7d ago

So, it's in Manchin's best interest to tank the Biden agenda and ensure that 55 seat majority doesn't come to pass, right?

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u/MustardBranches 7d ago

Yep. He gets to continue being the deciding vote, whereas if the Senate actually represented their constituents he would be relegated to obscurity

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u/canttaketheshyfromme Ohio 7d ago

Lieberman all over again.

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u/SteadyastheOcean Florida 7d ago

Yep, my first thought too. And he arguably played a major role in screwing the progressive agenda in America for a decade. Hopefully this won't be a full repeat...

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u/IT53 7d ago

which is why we need to stop pretending his obstructionism is about actually representing WV voters or securing his own election (his voters favor a $15 min wage anyway).

Schumer and Biden need to be exerting more influence here. Threaten all military funding in WV and offer the next landlocked base if he comes into the fold. Offer DoE and DoT funds specifically targeted at his failing state. Do something

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u/trastamaravi Pennsylvania 7d ago

Do WV voters support a $15 minimum wage? They voted against the candidate running on a $15 minimum wage by like 30 points in both the presidential and Senate elections.

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u/ghunt81 West Virginia 7d ago

I don't think people here can comprehend it. There are "good jobs" here that barely pay $15 an hour. I think people in this state are so used to getting lowballed on their wages that they think everyone else should too.

In that same vein, a $15 minimum wage would be pretty high for this state. Would be a big jump in pay for probably over 50% of the workforce.

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u/bigmoneynuts 7d ago

his voters favor a $15 min wage anyway

source?

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u/qwadzxs 7d ago

lol is that map supposed to show Portman's seat going to a D in 2022? Immediately in disbelief especially after Biden's 2020 performance in Ohio and it being a midterm. Ohio is losing a district for redistricting because of all the likely D voters getting the fuck outta dodge.

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u/dengeist 7d ago

Serious question: How do West Virginians feel about Manchin holding this proposal back?

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u/1980-Something 7d ago

He recently sat down with a bunch of constituents and was like “why don’t you ask for family for money?” He’s painfully out of touch.

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u/ultrasegraves 7d ago

This seemingly widespread idea that the government exists to exist and not to serve people is troubling. “By the people” means do not attempt to suppress the votes of Americans on a crusade against theoretical fraud. “For the people means said votes grant the ability of those politicians to serve the good of the people.

If there is a politician in either party that is attempting to infringe on either of these, how is that not sedition in and of itself?

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u/iridescentlichen 7d ago

What if we all started writing him? I think the majority of West Virginians would like the $15 min wage and it could gain him new young voters.

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u/qchisq 7d ago

... Do you think that it's on accident that Manchin is the only Democrat elected to statewide office in WV?

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u/sunnyB8 7d ago

Unsurprised. The only time Manchin is in the news is when he jumps aisles. It’s to be expected.

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u/VulfSki 7d ago

$11 dollars would have made sense.... If they had passed this 20 years ago.

The problem I find with older folks is they see the world through the lense of the time when they were much younger. They don't update their perception of a livable wage with inflation

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u/MudLOA California 7d ago

This is why these older voters don’t understand but are dominating all the election with their turnouts. A lot of younger voters who depends on these wages aren’t being politically involved.

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u/Lunarskies92 Maine 7d ago

I never got politically involved until I got a job where I was comfortable. When you're stressing about how to afford food and a place to live its hard to get yourself to be involved in politics. After a long day of work the last thing I wanted to do was stress about the idiots running the country. Also elections take place on a work day.

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u/hsteinbe 7d ago

$15 AND automatic adjustment for inflation. Dems need to stop giving in to placate.

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u/PantsOnHead88 7d ago

I like that automatic adjustment is mentioned. Just pitching around any given number, be it $7.25, $11, 15, etc is meaningless unless it accounts for the current cost of living.

Cost of living varies so dramatically between regions, but I can see the appeal of a national minimum wage from the standpoint that it is far simpler to administer. An imperfect national change for those most in need is probably better than a patchwork where a few areas get taken care of while others are completely ignored by their state governments.

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u/JollyZubat 7d ago

Wait minimum wage is not subject to inflation? Confused in Europe here.

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u/STINKYCATT 7d ago edited 7d ago

Lol first time? It’s been 7.25 since 2009. Somehow, the GOP keeps convincing stupid people that inflation is fake and wages should never go up.

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u/Worms_sg 7d ago

Wait... so it was even lower than $7.25 before that? Wow. Just wow.

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u/lostshell 7d ago

$5.15/hour around early 2000’s

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u/FatBaldBeardedGuy 7d ago

4.25 till 1997ish, then 4.75 till around 2000.

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u/IzzyIzumi California 7d ago

I remember seeing that on the posters at work with the labor rights when I worked at retail. Woof.

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u/ElWursto 7d ago

That‘s insane. The USA see themselves as one of the most prosperous countries on this planet, yet people still have to work and live under such conditions. I can‘t understand how politicians defending such circumstances can get re-elected by the masses...

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u/Hello_there_friendo Utah 7d ago

Propaganda and decades of making sure their base remains uneducated.

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u/Smart-Competition-82 7d ago

Propaganda is right. They brainwashed a generation for nearly 20 years after 9/11.

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u/JBHUTT09 New York 7d ago edited 7d ago

It used to be increased each year regularly, but then came Reagan, the first "Trump".

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u/boomboy8511 7d ago

Seriously FUCK Reagan.

His administration was the beginning of the modern GOP.

They have managed to fuck up our entire country 40 years later with their bullshit policies and memos.

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u/Catshit-Dogfart West Virginia 7d ago

A great many things wrong with today started with Reagan.

Like sending arms to Islamic extremists to form a militant group they would call Al-Quaeda

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u/88hernanca 7d ago

A bit of a stretch, but the GOP is shit maybe since Hayes ruined Reconstruction. Definitely since Nixon.

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u/SpecificEvent9 7d ago

Coincidence that the two "celebrity" presidents are both narcissistic, destructive, self-entitled assholes?

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u/chrisms150 New Jersey 7d ago

Nixon: am I a joke to you?

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u/timelighter 7d ago edited 7d ago

Nixon was a joke bc he was a criminal. But he wasn't a trickle-down, strip-the-safety-nets politician. He actually expanded social security and ceeded to demands to remove a work requirement for welfare. He also created the EPA and clean water act, so he's miles more ethical than Trump in my book.

Edit: I looked into it and I guess Nixon voted a bill in 1973 to raise the minimum wage to $2.20, fearing it would lead to inflation. Lot of good that did. He also supported Basic Income (not the UBI kind but the guaranteed work kind) until his admin convinced him it would be politically damaging.

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u/playingandrealityxxx 7d ago

Nixon is a God send compared to this trash.

Nixon was impeached for destroying evidence that would've made him guilty.

We have video evidence of trump of thousands of lies and inciting a riot and he's walking around free and using our tax dollars for secret service for the remainder of his days. Lol

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u/ScarsUnseen 7d ago

Nixon was impeached

Resigned to avoid being impeached.

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u/DhostPepper Michigan 7d ago

*Resigned to avoid being convicted

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u/gemma_atano 7d ago

Do you know why? Because Nixon was scared shitless of the left. Read Kissinger’s book.

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u/JBHUTT09 New York 7d ago

Nixon did a lot of bad, but Reagan was just like Trump in that he managed to be destruction incarnate while maintaining a rabid fanbase. Reagan was basically a well spoken Trump. A "competent" Trump. If Trump knew how to speak he'd be remembered the way the Right and Center remember Reagan.

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u/stickdudeseven 7d ago

Yes, Nixon. Yes you are.

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u/DerbyGirlsAreHot 7d ago edited 7d ago

Nope. It's been stagnant for about two decades* now.

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u/AntManMax New York 7d ago

Two decades. Its only been increased twice since the late 90s.

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u/reptile7383 Ohio 7d ago

And falling behind inflation long before that

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u/hsteinbe 7d ago

You know we have no National health care...

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u/vanillatimshel Tennessee 7d ago

Hi, let me show you the electoral college.

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u/ZenWhisper 7d ago

The legislation would gradually hike the pay floor to $15 an hour nationwide by 2025, then tie future increases to median wage growth. That is not directly tied to inflation but it is better than nothing. What it really would do is take away a fixed rate recurring negotiating point from both parties that has been enjoyed for over 80 years.

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u/Thue 7d ago

One person should not be allowed to hold relief hostage.

But a $15 minimum wage is not just being held hostage by Manchin. If any of the 50 Republican Senators voted for it, it would pass without Manchin.

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u/hawkseye17 7d ago

Depending on Republicans is not a viable strategy

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u/MostManufacturer7 7d ago

The $15 minimum wage is very necessary for the American people. Being popular is just a bonus.

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u/theladynora 7d ago

"...The estimated "living wage for an adult with no children in West Virginia right now is almost $14/hour." "By 2025 it will be well above $15," Weber added. "$11/hr is not enough for West Virginia or anywhere."

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u/MostManufacturer7 7d ago

If we project an adjustment for inflation for 2025 $15 minimum wage itself will not be enough for anyone, anywhere. $15 minimum wage today is ough to help people today and prevent that inflation becoming a galloping one, by salvaging the economy and increasing purchase power today.

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u/backandforthagain 7d ago

I'm job hunting and trying not to cry as I read this. I swear 1 in 100 jobs pays over $15, and that 1 job is only hiring 4 people ever.

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u/Bourbzahn 7d ago

There’s two basic types of studies when it comes to the minimum wage. One uses models to estimate what the impact will be in the future. And the looks backwards empirically at what actually happened. The 2021 CBO report on this is the estimate. Like some before that keep estimating all of these job losses, while the studies that look back at what actually happens never can find all these job losses.

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u/caststoneglasshome 7d ago

Nearly 60% of Republican voters with an income lower than $40k support raising the minimum wage to $15.

86% of all Dems support it.

A majority of independents support it.

Manchin is undermining the parties electability for the 2022 elections with this dumb purity test stunt.

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u/amazingsod 7d ago

I'm all for this proposal but why cite a specific section of republican voters like that?

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u/Defiantly_Resilient 7d ago

Ok I seriously need to know. I make minimum wage. The argument I've been presented with is 'small businesses can't afford that and wont be able to survive'

Why am I, the lowest on the chain of command (a min wage worker) supposed to care if small businesses can't stay open? Why am I expected tp struggle to survive so the small business does not? What about the government? The huge corporations?? Why are they not regulating these things?

We've seen amazon and google do things to cut competition, which I don't think is allowed but still is happening.

Why does the cost of everything get passed onto the consumer and the worker? No CEOS are taking pay cuts, no corporations are cutting their profits. No, they just want the consumer to pay more and their employee to do even more work for no compensation

Why is this practice allowed? Why am I the bad guy for wanting to survive? For wanting to know my family isn't going to be homeless because we can't afford rent?

I don't understand why me, below poverty?, is supposed to be worried about mom and pop shops. Hell, they have more than me. Why doesn't the government do tax breaks and give stimulus money to small businesses who cannot afford higher min. Wage?

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u/Randvek Oregon 7d ago

Because right-wingers see minimum wage jobs as stepping stones for teenagers, not a trap that adults fall into and get stuck with for long periods of time. They are still stuck in a 50s/60s mindset.

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u/jstank2 7d ago

Fuck Joe Manchin

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u/famous__shoes 7d ago

I get that people don't like Joe Manchin, and for sure he's my least favorite Democratic senator, but more than "fuck Joe Manchin," fuck all 50 republican senators

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u/senturon 7d ago

Agreed, I'm fully on the Progressive train but the title of this article would have you believe it's one person holding it hostage, it's actually 51 people ... and to be completely fair, that's a majority.

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u/BirdlandMan 7d ago

Do you guys not realize the alternative to Manchin in WV is a Republican? He is literally the best case scenario you can hope for out of a state that is that conservative (we’re talking about a state that voted for Trump in 2020 by a margin of 39% and didn’t have a single county vote blue).

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u/blacksoxing 7d ago

A reminder that after taxes you’re still federally alone under $30k a year at full time (2080 hours)

This is foolish. Nobody is going to be in a wealthy position in life AND if you cannot pay a gross of 31k to a full time employee then your business isn’t truly needed or ran correctly.

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u/SmilinGoat Alaska 7d ago

Businesses will also be making more money across the board because far less households will be working pay check to pay check. Also should see a huge jump in quality of life with lower hunger/crime levels.

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u/flash-tractor 7d ago

Manchin is a coal shill, by keeping wages low in WV the people remain dependent on coal mines for any semblance of a state economy. I'm from WV, and my dad is a coal miner. Anytime there is even a remote possibility of another industry in WV the amount of "anti-whatever it is" propaganda is outrageous. Literally seen anti farming propaganda when the state was giving out grants to miners to change careers.

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u/Loki364 Illinois 7d ago

Let Dick Durbin know, as the Senate Majority Whip it is his job to get Mancin and Sinema in line.

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u/PutnamPete 7d ago

Err ... It's not one.person, it's fifty one.

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u/forestcall 7d ago

My wife and I run and own a restaurant and the starting wage is $15. Our most expensive full meal is $14.50. We sell a bunch of baked goods, bento style meals for grocery stores as well as in-house seating and of course takeout. But my point is a small business can handle it. My wife and I earn a decent income with the lowest wage staff earning $15.75 (dish washer and cleaner). I could not imagine how anyone can afford rent and living costs on less. I wish we could pay more but we are covering a phat restaurant loan as well as all the overhead. We also pay $440 per full time employee benefits that include basic insurance and some other benefits which includes a 24 hour Fitness membership and 1 meal per shift. Employees can upgrade their health insurance.

I should note that the key for our growth, especially during Covid has been having a full time marketing person.

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u/Netteka 7d ago

It wouldn’t have to jump from 7 to 15 if they had raised it like they should have over the years.

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u/milqi New York 7d ago

$15 is already too little of a minimum wage to begin with. We've been talking about $15 for over a decade. It should be $20 by now.

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u/AC3x0FxSPADES 7d ago

I started my entry level job in the US at $15/hr in 2014, and it still wouldn’t have paid for an apartment + expenses in my area. My wife and I have been fortunate to advance in our careers but we would have been absolutely fucked if we had to rely on the “generosity” of minimum wage laws. Hopefully this gets passed soon and readjusts expectations as to what a livable wage means.

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u/420catloveredm California 7d ago

I make about $17 an hour working about 50 hours a week. Even though I can technically afford my apartment and expenses I wouldn’t actually qualify for an apartment on my own because I don’t make three times the rent.... and I live on a street where there are routinely drunk or high people freaking out.

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u/smoothtrip 7d ago

It should already be 15 and we should be talking about increasing the wage to 20 over 3 years.

What kind of bizarro reality are we fucking in where we are debating increasing the minimum wage, let a lone increasing it a tiny bit over 5 years. Wtf

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u/btraynor 7d ago edited 7d ago

What a lot of people don't think about is that moving the minimum wage to 15 dollars an hour moves some low income families out of the poverty range and into making businesses pay for work instead of subsiding those workers with John Q Taxpayer money. I don't know how many of those people are drawing money from the government to help feed their families, but I consider it a huge win if the bill gets passed.

Edit:. Thank you for my very first gilded comment! It only took me 8 years..

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u/Coronaposts 7d ago

Right. I remember reading that something like half of Walmart employees are on EBT and other government assistance. If companies weren't allowed to pay people so little, these programs would cost less (even though their cost already pales in comparison to our military budget) because way less people would need them.

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u/RobertoCentAm 7d ago

Seems that republicans only want to suppress the minimum wage. Not try to make provisions for productivity, or keep prices down, or basically anything that benefits the working people.

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u/Jetguy50 7d ago

Joe Manchin is just a Republican , it is shameful he thinks $11 an hour is sustainable income . Manchin thinks $88 a day for 8 hours of labor is reasonable, but let’s not forget that taxes are now taken out so that $88 is now around $77 a day which brings us to a grand total of $386 per week $1600 p/m $20,000 per year who can live on That !!! again it’s shameful Manchin thinks this a good living wage . $15 is a good starting point , it then should be adjusted annually base on inflation and other criteria

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u/__send-nudes__ 7d ago

This guy makes $90/hour before campaign contributions, and he’s trying to cut minimum wage by $4/hour when it’s already pitifully low.

Manchin jeopardized his voter base by making this suggestion, and he needs to vote yes on the bill with the $15 minimum wage figure.

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u/TDonnB 7d ago

West Virginia’s most populous city, Charleston has about 50k population. The second biggest, Huntington, has about 45k. As a point of reference, Columbus, Ohio has a population of 800k, which is roughly half the population of THE ENTIRE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA. That means this obstructing prick is holding up progress for the entire nation on behalf of his state whose population is roughly equal to 2/3rds of Chicago. The median household income in WV is $43k while just across the river in Ohio its’s nearly $57k and Pennsylvania is $61k. If seeing those numbers wasn’t enough to make you want to move out of state, seeing your senator oppose every single measure that could benefit his disproportionately underserved populace (healthcare for all, increased minimum wage, etc.) should do the trick. Keep it up, Joe. Pretty soon it’ll just be you and your coal slinging buddies, and you can go back to polluting and destroying one of the most beautiful places on earth.

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u/ub40fanatic 7d ago

That’s what really gets to me. West Virginia is the 4th most dependent state on federal funds and its representative has the power to block this measure for all of the states that pay the taxes that West Virginia requires to be solvent.

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u/somguy9 7d ago

Literally no reason not to.

Oh no! Profit margins are ever so slightly reduced on a micro level! How terrible!

Anyway, income for the lower echelons of society has doubled so not only do their lives improve substantially, but the economy as well as the federal government can see drastic improvements from the increase in consumer spending.

Like there’s literally no reason not to do this unless you actually want to preserve or expand the current wealth inequality for some odd fucking reason

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u/Past_Contour 7d ago

Ol’ Joe Manchin, the fair weather Democrat. Probably had to be bribed to vote along with Dems during impeachment. Could really do with less of him.