r/OnePiece Feb 19 '21

I absolutely REFUSE to believe that one can watch/read One Piece in its entirety and STILL think that any Strawhat is unloyal. Discussion

You read the title, and this is exactly how I feel. Time and time again each and every, and I mean EVERY Strawhat has proven that they are willing to lay down their own life for the sake of their Captain or for the whole crew itself. Now you may be wondering why I bring this up, well that's because yesterday I was watching a TikTok which claimed that the Strawhats are one of the most loyal crews in all of anime, which I agreed with whole-heartedly. However I went to the comments and....oh boy. I could actually feel my blood boiling when I read those comments. Here are a few examples of the blasphemy that (dis)graced my eyes as I laughed trying to hold back my exploding anger:

  • "This is the most cap in a I've ever seen in a video."
  • "Yeah, besides Sanji, Usopp and Nami."
  • "Not after what Sanji did to Luffy 🤡🤡🤡"
  • "Ngl, I still don't trust Nami."

And the thing I am so so so SO tired of hearing is: "Oh, Zoro is the most loyal Strawhat 🤡" This statement is untrue for a massive amount of reasons, the biggest one being, there is no most loyal Strawhat. They are all equally ready to sacrifice themselves for Luffy and each other. IF YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND THIS, GO RE-WATCH THE SHOW.

But this is about as much as I can type before I blow a fuse. But how do y'all feel about people who that there is still a mole amongst us?

502 Upvotes

263

u/pastab0x Citizen Feb 19 '21 edited Feb 19 '21

Sanji -> left the crew and sacrificed himself to prevent it from becoming Big Mom underlings and/or suffering horrible death, proposed himself to sacrifice his life in order to save both Luffy and Zorro, suffered an enormous and traumatic defeat in Shabondy and still tried to come back as soon as possible because Luffy needed him

Usopp -> came back to fight despite having left the crew, burned a WG flag when Luffy asked him to, faced the entire Francky Family while already being injured, fought in every arc and won despite being far weaker than any other SH just because he refused to be a burden, suffered an enormous and traumatic defeat in Shabondy and still tried to come back as soon as possible because Luffy needed him

Nami -> asked Luffy for help for the first time since her mother died, trusted him with her life when she fell sick, trusted him to come back when he faced his strongest opponent, and basically is the vice captain of one of the stupidest captains ever, suffered an enormous and traumatic defeat in Shabondy and still tried to come back as soon as possible because Luffy needed her

Zorro -> we all know about Zorro

Chopper -> became a monster, fought against opponents way stronger than him just because he wanted to help Luffy, suffered an enormous and traumatic defeat in Shabondy and still tried to come back as soon as possible because Luffy needed him

Robin -> accepted to be tortured and ultimately executed to prevent the crew from being attacked by the CP9, suffered an enormous and traumatic defeat in Shabondy and still tried to come back as soon as possible because Luffy needed her

Brook -> abandonned his life as a world superstar to come back to the crew without a single moment of hesitation, protected them with his life against Kuma after only a couple days with the crew, announced the world the return of Luffy, suffered an enormous and traumatic defeat in Shabondy and still tried to come back as soon as possible because Luffy needed him

Vivi (I don't care, Vivi is a crewmate, sue me) -> risked several time to be classified as a criminal in order to see the Crew/talk to them, despite her country being in a critical situation

Jinbe -> risked his life to save Luffy against Akainu, gave Luffy his blood depite becoming a criminal in his home country which he loves, flipped off a Yonkou and told her the burn of a lifetime to become Luffy's crewmate

Franky -> trusted him with his dream, gave up his human appearance to become more powerful for him, suffered an enormous and traumatic defeat in Shabondy and still tried to come back as soon as possible because Luffy needed him

Merry -> was basically cerebrally dead, and yet faced a buster call to come and save the crew, and then apologized for dying because he wanted to carry them further out of love

But yeah, I guess none of them is loyal to the crew or to Luffy...

As a side note, I recommend the AMV He is our captain on YouTube. It shows the reasons for every crewmate to trust him and shows luffy as the most badass character ever, on an absolute masterpiece of a music

Edit: added Merry to the list

117

u/iggysenpai Feb 19 '21

Zorro -> we all know about Zorro

Nothing happened.

23

u/pastab0x Citizen Feb 19 '21

Yeah that, and everything else

15

u/LaFlame300 Slave Feb 19 '21

WE ALL KNOW ABOUT ZORO!

13

u/Enlighten_YourMind Feb 19 '21

Also, this moment is why I will always consider Zoro the true vice captain/first mate...and one of my top 10 moments in the history of manga/anime lol

Nami is the worlds best navigator and 3rd in command, although she would never actually command and always be the navigator (look at the twirly eye brow pirates. Sanii - captain, Nami - navigator.

But yea on the topic of the post, the SH’s and their group dynamic is my favorite thing in one piece, the love & trust they share is my favorite thing I’ve ever found in fiction

Even Zoro & Sanii who most people seem to not get their dynamic, I assume y’all have never had brothers before? To me they are just like brothers lol, love to clown each other, and laugh when the other one trips cause it’s just funny & they know they won’t actually get hurt. But wait and see if either of them was actually in trouble and had to be saved by the other. Pity on the villain that made that situation come about cause they about to get their ass whopped...and then the saver can hold that over the head of the one who got saved for the next 100 chapters 😂

9

u/pastab0x Citizen Feb 19 '21

Okay I agree, that moment was awesome, and no one else than Zorro could've done it, at least not as badass. Does that make him Luffy's first mate? Sure. His vice captain? No!

The vice captain has so much more responsibility than just fighting every now and then. It is a 24/7 job, a'd the only one worth of that title is Nami. She is the only one one board whose orders are followed without question by everyone, including Luffy. Hell, even to buy food and medicines, the crew needs to go through her. Luffy has nothing to say in the matter, because Nami deals with it, and everyone knows it. Navigator? Come on! She does so much more than that. She is the one that gives the order and no one can whoop Zorro's, Luffy's and Sanji's ass as Nami does, espacially not a consistently. She is the crew's mom. Navigator... How dare you bring her role down so much?

No one follows Zorro's orders, except in two situations : he is on watch and something is happening, or there is a fight and he tells the others where to go so he can best protect them. The rest of the time he sleeps, follow orders or trains.

6

u/slimmsady Feb 20 '21

Nami kicking the monster trios asses is nothing more than a gag. If you want to see a leadership hierarchy those 3 are clearly at the top.

Luffy is Luffy.

Zoro is the one who led the attack on Oars and handled the Usopp-Luffy situation in Enies Lobby where Luffy was emotionally vulnerable. He was also the one who took the pain in Thriller Bark. Even though I think any other strawhats would have done the same, Oda is clearly showing who is the second in command as a leader sacrificing himself for his comrades is a big theme in the story. This also shows that Sanji is kind of like the third as he is depicted as the only other person that is conscious and is trying to sacrificing himself.

Speaking of Sanji, he is depicted as a leader even more than Zoro imo as while zoro's prime focus is fighting, Sanji gets the job of protecting the relatively weaker strawhats. He obviously led half of the group to Zou in absence of Luffy and also picked a fight with big mom's crew in the process.

8

u/pastab0x Citizen Feb 20 '21

It is a gag, yet they follow her orders every. Single. Time. And they even apologize

Leading the combat on Oars is fighting related, so of course they'll follow, that's his job in the crew, and he does the fighting job incredibly well (just like every member of the crew does his job incredibly well)

The others didn't offer their life because they were unconscious. As I said somewhere in this thread, Zorro taking all that damage is not a sign of Zorro's strength, but of Luffy's. The intended reasoning is not "Zorro lost all this blood and is still alive, he really is the second in command" (???), but rather "Zorro is such a tough guy and yet he barely survived that. Luffy really is amazing and resistant".

Again, strength is not everything when it comes to leading a crew. Fighting and commanding a crew in the everyday life are two totally different things that require a whole different set of skills. Zorro has the fighting power and the fighting leadership, but that's it. Sanji is more fit to the role, but next to Nami's skills in that domain, he is nothing. He clearly didn't lead the expedition, because Nami was there. He took care of the fighting against BB's ship and against Kaido's men, but the rest of it was handled by Nami.

Judging only on the strength to decide the leader is such a primitive way of looking at things... Oda writes better than that. The facts are, outside of fights, Zorro has zero leadership, Sanji has some since he deals with the kitchen and gives orders on who eats what and when, but most of the orders are given by Nami: money, direction, what to do with the ship, what to buy. Sanji and Chopper must both go through her to buy food and meds. She is the one with the basic knowledge and the personnality to use it. She is the one that recieves the crutial information for the next step of the voyage. And even if it is a gag, she is the one that kicks everyone else's ass when they step out of line, and no one questions it.

As you said, Zorro's prime focus is fighting. I would say it is his only focus. What other responsibility does he have? What decision does he take regarding the crew apart from fights? I say he's like the cat brothers on Kuro's ship: the strongest of the crew, but not its leaders. They guard the ship and do the fighting, but that's it

3

u/LaggOuTX The Revolutionary Army Feb 20 '21

you should probably watch oharas video on zoro being more than just a fighter.

2

u/pastab0x Citizen Feb 20 '21

More than a fighter? I can buy that, no issue there. I tend to become extreme when debatting with someone with a strong opinion. A vice captain? Come on... That's as credible as Crocodile being Luffy's mom

1

u/slimmsady Feb 20 '21 edited Feb 20 '21

Zoro warns Luffy to not allow Usopp back into the crew unless he apologizes. Imo deciding if a crewmate remains or goes is a far greater responsibility than deciding the slice of life on the ship. And the whole crew including Nami had to agree on this whether they wanted to or not.

Sanji led half the crew including Nami in absence of Luffy. Do you think Luffy would have let them go if Sanji was not there with them? Sanji motivated Usopp in Enies Lobby when he was down and was thinking if he could even be useful. When they went to rescue him, his one look was enough to silence Nami. And I wonder if it was not for his resolution to never hit a woman, would he have retaliated when Nami slapped him. So, it is not like they always listen to her.

3

u/pastab0x Citizen Feb 20 '21

Nami invited Chopper to the crew before Luffy even met him, sooo... Also Zorro gives an explanation as to why Usopp souldn't be allowed back in the crew without apologizing. That was a very important thing to do, and I'm glad he did it, but that was not an order. He left the ultimate choice to Luffy. But he was right, and everyone else felt it and respected it

What we know of that part is only the fighting parts, against Big Mom's ship and against Kaido's men, nothing in between

I'm pretty sure any member of the crew in such a tense situation would've silenced any other one in the same way. I mean they are in the middle of the territory of a yonkou and one member of the crew is beating the captain's ass instead of coming back with him. No wonder they are under pressure. And of course he wouldn't have retaliated, because if he did, Luffy wouldn't have accepted it and would've fought back. Sanji didn't want that to happen, he knew Luffy was the only one he could ever hit and get away with it

1

u/tiger2205_6 Feb 20 '21

Being the navigator and accountant doesn’t mean you’re the vice captain, Zoro is the vice captain. We saw it at Water 7, we saw it in Punk Hazard, Zou and Wano with him trying to get Luffy to be serious, and we’re seeing it now in the recent chapters of Wano. Also they follow Nami when they don’t care, Luffy still decides where they go. Nami said not to go to Punk Hazard but Luffy said they were going because he was the captain. And I’m pretty sure Franky is the one that’s decides what to do with the ship, just like Ussop used to with the Going Merry.

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3

u/MadeIn260 Feb 19 '21

i actually just had a 40 minute debate with someone on that very topic about the dynamic between sanji and zoro last night on here. nice to see somebody feel the same way about is as me lol

2

u/HeyItsMeRay Feb 19 '21

I was just going to type this... haha

0

u/Affectionate-Guava92 Feb 19 '21

This comment deserves all the upvotes 😂😂 I got a good laugh once I actually caught the reference

25

u/Misorable45400 Feb 19 '21

Now that's the kind of comment I wanna read on this sub. Thank you for your passion, same as mine.

25

u/Trias707 Feb 19 '21

Say what you want but to me , the most badass and Friendship moment of Luffy will be when he carried Sanji and Nami to Dr Kureha by climbing that big ice mountian despite the coldness , window , breathing problems , bleeding fingers

17

u/pastab0x Citizen Feb 19 '21

Yeah that, but also when he puts his hat on Nami's head and goes to rip Arlong a second asshole, when he tells Vivi to also put their lifes on the line, when he orders Usopp to burn the flag and then yells at Robin to say she wants to live, when he tells Brook Laboon is still waiting for him and then goes on to invite him in the crew, when he and the others find Usopp in front of the Francky Family house and go on to destroy it and everyone in it, when he uses conqueror's to beat the wolfes that are attacking Mr2 in Impel Down, and finally when Jinbe reminds him that Luffy may have lost his brother but he still has his crew and the future clears up for him

3

u/Trias707 Feb 19 '21

Yea one piece overall is pure masterpiece

1

u/Enlighten_YourMind Feb 19 '21

Wait what happened to Sanji I remember them going together and Nami being sick?

7

u/mongster_03 Feb 19 '21

Got like hit by a fighting rabbit or something and broke things

5

u/Trias707 Feb 19 '21

Ye he was unconscious

2

u/fagnipnig Feb 20 '21

He jobbed to a Lapahn lol

2

u/rain_dragon Feb 21 '21

The Lapins caused an avalanche, the tree they were surfing the avalanche on was about to hit a rock, Sanji tossed Luffy & Nami off and into the snow before they hit. He hit the rocks with the tree and then was caught in the avalanche. Luffy stretched to try and grab him but only got his glove, but went and found him unconscious and carried both him and Nami up to Kureha's castle. He clawed his way up a sheer cliff bare handed with Nami on his back while carrying Sanji by the scruff of the neck (coat actually) in his mouth, like a cat does a kitten. One of Luffy's most underrated acts. Shit actually made me cry.

32

u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

YESSS, I LOVE THIS ENERGY 🤤🤤 and yeah, I've seen that AMV before and it's really cool. Thank you for taking the time to make this 😁

13

u/pastab0x Citizen Feb 19 '21

We can do the same exercise for what Luffy and the crew did to earn the trust of each member of the crew, but that would be too long to do x)

15

u/Oreo-and-Fly Feb 19 '21

We Fight Together is thus my favourite opening because of this.

The strawhats are always going to be there, because he was there for them. The montage shows in the song, that Luffy was there for every single one of them.

That is why in the end they are standing there at the ship, waiting.

I mean the ending lyric is this "Wasurenai de We fight together" which translates to "Don't ever forget, we fight together"

So whoever doubts the loyalty of any strawhat is cray.

3

u/1Fanta Feb 19 '21

On brooku i read p*star instead of superstar.

4

u/HeyItsMeRay Feb 19 '21

wait where is merry?

4

u/pastab0x Citizen Feb 19 '21

I just added him, thanks for the reminder

3

u/HeyItsMeRay Feb 19 '21

<3 lol love your dedication

Ya, merry in my mind is part of the crew.

1

u/Enlighten_YourMind Feb 19 '21

Merry best ship don’t @ me

5

u/turtleduck31 Feb 19 '21

Ok you add Vivi but what about my boy Bon Clay!

3

u/pastab0x Citizen Feb 19 '21

Ah well as much as I love Bon Clay, and as much friends as he is with the SH crew, he is "only" a friend. He is not part of the crew, because 1) he never sailed on the ship for long, a'd 2) he was never officially added to the crew by Luffy

3

u/turtleduck31 Feb 19 '21

Wait what didn’t Luffy say something to him during impel down? Like him asking bon to join? Idk I’m on my 2nd read through and only on Alabasta

1

u/pastab0x Citizen Feb 19 '21

I'm on my second watchthrough (I've read the manga several times) and I'm at Drum kingdom. That is possible, I don't remember about that, but perhaps. We'll have to wait and see I guess

3

u/quizh Feb 20 '21

Here is the AMV.

What a beauty...

2

u/DaZ55 Feb 19 '21

vivi had the interest of her country in mind tho

8

u/pastab0x Citizen Feb 19 '21

When she fled the palace the day of her big speech and risked to be criminalized by the Marines? Also when she spoke about Luffy with strangers during the Reverie? Yeah sure

5

u/Enlighten_YourMind Feb 19 '21

Head cannons are wild lol

But I agree with you Vivi is a SH member, and it’s not even an argument to anyone who matters, remember the cloth bracelets? Straw. Hat. Vivi. 👏🏼

4

u/pastab0x Citizen Feb 19 '21

Man I wish from the bottom of my heart that Vivi returns to the crew at some point

3

u/mehmeh5 Feb 19 '21

I mean something happened to her, so she may have to join them now?

2

u/spencerthematch Feb 19 '21

upvoted for vivi

2

u/pastab0x Citizen Feb 19 '21

I know right? Can't wait for her to return! Imu who? Kaido's hybrid form? I don't care about that, show me Vivi god dammit!

2

u/Emergency_Morning_79 Feb 20 '21

Say, "suffered an enormous and traumatic defeat in Shabondy" again, Say it again, I dare you, I double dare you motherf***er, say. it. again.

6

u/ImmaIvanoM Feb 19 '21

I can argue Zoro is the most loyal. I mean of course maybe we have different definitions of what “most loyal” means but I can argue it.

Think of it this way, Take a King, the King’s general and the General’s soldier. In time of a crisis, both the soldier and the general decide to put their lives on the line for the King. They are both offering one life, their own, so technically you can say they are equally loyal. But that’s not true. The general unlike the soldier has another option here. The general can just overthrow the king. Like instead of following the king’s orders to put his life on the line same as the soldier, the general can take it upon himself to overthrow the king. This is an option entirely NOT available to the soldier.

So do you see how I can say the General is in fact more loyal than the soldier even though technically both of them end up sacrificing their lives for the King.

Zoro is the only strawhat who is actively compared to Luffy. Even his introduction arc has him being the one to defeat the villain of the arc, have more infamy than Luffy and the situation Zoro is saved from is of his own making and not some big trauma based existential evil like every other strawhat. So yes, when someone who is comparable to Luffy shows loyalty to Luffy, it’s a bigger deal than when people who are below Luffy do it.

All the strawhats face Kuma and all of them refuse to give up Luffy. Good. But only ONE of the strawhats has the physical capability comparable to Luffy to also back it up. It matters that Zoro is strong enough to face Kuma similar to how Luffy had just faced another Warlord Moria and yet Zoro is still loyal to Luffy. The more the two are comparable, the more impressive it is that Luffy has Zoro’s loyalty.

Urouge said it himself after seeing Zoro, it’s more impressive that Zoro is under Luffy given Zoro’s general being and so Zoro’s loyalty means more than other strawhats. He becomes more loyal because their relative equity should give Zoro more reason NOT to be loyal in the first place.

12

u/pastab0x Citizen Feb 19 '21

Yeah, but what you seem to be forgetting is that if Zorro takes over Luffy (provided he can, which debattable but that I doubt), not one member of the crew will follow him. Everyone follows Luffy, they won't follow Zorro, especially if he overthrows Luffy, which means overthrowing him has no purpose for Zorro

The fact that every SH is weaker than Zorro and still puts his life on the line means that their loyalty means more. Everyone gives what he has, but the less you have, the more what you give is important and is meaningful

Then since every SH had his life saved by Luffy except Zorro, they are grateful when Zorro is not. Therefore they are more loyal than him

And finally you can consider Zorro as a general, but this has no meaning in the case of the crew. Luffy is the captain, but every other crewmate is equally important and does stuff that only him can do depending on their strength, even Usopp. If anyone is Luffy's vice captain, its Nami. Strength has nothing to do with the role

8

u/triplod Feb 19 '21

I mean Luffy Saved Zoro straight up on chapter 3.

9

u/pastab0x Citizen Feb 19 '21

Yeah but that was not life changing. I mean he saved Zorro, but not his island, not his town, not the ideals of his father, not his country, not his restaurant , not his promise that he made 50 years ago to a friend or anything too dramatic. Also he did not save Zorro the same way he saved the others.

-1

u/ImmaIvanoM Feb 19 '21

My analogy about the King and his general wasn’t a 1 to 1 comparison of the Zoro Luffy thing... It was to demonstrate that the more comparable the two people are, the more meaningful it becomes when they have respect amongst each other

You can say the Soldier has less than the general so it’s more impressive if they want to give up their little for the King and that’s one way of looking at it. But then again, what can the soldier even do otherwise. The fact that the soldier has so little also means he has less chance to do anything against the King to begin with.

Again this isn’t a 1 to 1 comparison but I hope you see my point. It can actually be argued that Zoro is the most loyal based on my view point. You have your view point that you can argue that it means a lot for Usopp to risk his life since he’s weak but then again I can also say Zoro is also risking his life. It’s not like Zoro is caught in situations where his winning is guaranteed over Usopp winning. The same reason it means a lot for Luffy to also put his life on the line yet he’s also stronger than Usopp.

In the end, you can have your view point that can be argued and I can have my view point the can be argued. My point is, THERE CAN ACTUALLY BE ARGUMENTS MADE... People aren’t just delusional to see things like these

This thread was made mocking people with this view point as people who are delusional or something as if there is no argument to be made at all.

5

u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

Oof, I really like your analogy and I do understand but both the General and the Soldier have another option of not doing their job, right? However they are both so loyal that they want to do their job to protect the King, not because it is there job.

2

u/ImmaIvanoM Feb 19 '21

Alright but then who has more freedom not to do their job then? Like is it easier for the Soldier to abandon their job than the general? I don’t think so... In fact most of the time it’s entirely optional for the general to even put his life in harms way. He has enough power and proxies to completely avoid his job while maintaining his reputation while a soldier abandons their job and they are immediately executed or exiled or something.

So when the general chooses to put their life on the line yet they have more opportunity to get away with abandoning their job than the soldier does, it again feels like it’s more impressive that the general is so loyal

2

u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

sigh I actually can't argue with this lol

5

u/pastab0x Citizen Feb 19 '21 edited Feb 19 '21

You mean when Nami tells the headbutt girl "he will become the pirate king" which basically means "please just kill me", it has less loyalty value than Zorro saying "take my head instead" to Kuma which means "Let me save him" just because she is weak? I strongly disagree... What did Nami have to gain by saying that? Absolutely nothing. She knew she was going to die for saying that and it would gain Luffy nothing, yet she respected him so much she would rather die than lie about her captain's dream. Zorro did offer his life, but he gained something out of it (and offered us one hell of an epic scene).

When Chopper gave up his human shape (his only way of being accepted) to become a monster in order to help Luffy, it has less loyalty value than Zoro kneeling in front of Mihawk just because Chopper is weak?

Vivi risking her country? Jinbe flipping off a yonkou? Brook giving up fame, wealth and a fast way to get back to Laboon? Usopp swallowing his pride, being honest about his feelings and apologizing? Robin offering to be tortured and ultimately killed to save them? Sanji offering the same thing as Zorro to Kuma?

Saying that Zorro is the most loyal just because he is stronger might be a point, but an irrespectful one. They all gave their everything to him, and would all offer their lifes the same way Zorro did. Some of them already offered him their life. Their strength has nothing to do with it. Loyalty is about friendship, respect and admiration toward one another, not about relative strength. Luffy would equally offer his life for any of them, and he already put it on the lind several time for them out of loyalty. He blindly trusts them with his life, in different domains for each member, yet he is stronger than all of them.

By the way, Zorro is not strictly stronger than the others. He is unable to snipe, navigate, heal, repair the ship, play an instrument, cook or control the ship. He is only useful in a fight, and that is so much not the only thing that matters. The only one in the crew stupider than him is Luffy, and Luffy still finds his way from his room to the kitchen.

In contrary to you, every member of the crew knows that every other has strengths and weaknesses, and that they complete each other in the only way that makes us one of the strongest crews. Every one of them is important for the survival of the others (exept maybe brook, but a song is always nice). They need each other, and they know and respect that, even Zorro does.

Edit: Why is there a need to prove that Zorro is better than the others (exept luffy)? The only way Zorro is better than the others is fighting. He is worse in literally every other domains than litterally every other members of the crew. They all are necessary to the crew, not one is better than the others. Yes Zorro is stronger, but who cares? What's he gonna do if the whole crew becomes sick? If they are in a storm? If the foods is starting to rot? If everyone is sad? If the ship suffers critical damage that needs instant repair? He ain't ganna do shit, and if they rely on him for that, they are all dead

0

u/ImmaIvanoM Feb 19 '21

I didn’t say Zoro has skills that outshine everyone, what I said is that the same way Luffy as well just has this “Captain quality” that makes him naturally above the rest of the crew despite also not being able to cook or navigate or whatever, Zoro also has a quality above the rest similar to Luffy.

Remember I mentioned Urouge right? Urouge was talking about Zoro’s character when he was talking about finding it hard to imagine Zoro not being a leader in and of himself... Like all Zoro did was almost kill the celestial dragon... It wasn’t that Urouge saw Zoro cut a mountain or anything... There’s simply this intangible thing that just sets Zoro and Luffy apart that I’m sure you know as well

Like it’s been highlighted in the manga more times than this. Hell Oda even makes jokes about it by having that line about Zoro having Conquerers Haki recently. I don’t mean Zoro has Comquerers Haki, I mean there’s a certain quality that people and the strawhats just identify in Luffy that is only ever attributed to Zoro as well on the crew.

I mean Zoro is a fighter of course but then so is Luffy right? Luffy just has an extra thing that makes him the captain but in a similar vain, no one else on the crew has whatever that extra thing is besides Zoro. Hence the constant comparisons. Zoro is made to be comparable to Luffy in whatever this quality is ON TOP of him having strength to compare as well.

Zoro standing up after Kuma knocked out the whole crew is a sign that his strength is comparable hence why he fights a warlord similar to Luffy. But Zoro was also going to lose nonetheless and he actually just convinced Kuma to offer him the deal to spare Luffy. Zoro simply talks about himself and Luffy and ambitions and gives off such an air that Kuma buys it. He offers him a deal that ultimately saves the whole crew and again Zoro’s physical strength and willpower is tested to match Luffy’s.

See the same way Luffy sort of shows his grit and things work out, Zoro just shows Kuma his grit and whatever quality everyone keeps mentioning manifests here to allow Zoro to save everyone

That’s what I mean by Luffy and Zoro are comparable. It’s not just fighting strength since Luffy isn’t just fighting strength oriented. People compare Zoro’s leadership to Luffy. Even their mindsets are always compared by Oda. Stuff like Luffy having the exact same opinion on heroes as Zoro and even using the exact same words to describe it is obviously Oda trying to make a parallel.

And that’s where the argument about Loyalty comes in. The two are so similar that the fact that Zoro can be this loyal to Luffy makes his loyalty more important.

Okay, look, I know this is Reddit and everyone on Reddit loves to argue for the sake of “winning the argument” but that’s not my intention... I just wanted to show that their is actual reasoning to people who see Zoro as the most loyal... I’m not out here trying win an argument. Okay.

6

u/SolidB0NY Pirate Feb 19 '21

i really don't see why Zoro having a strong aura and a conqueror feel about him makes his loyalty stronger

it makes it valuable as would any person that's big in stature, but they being similar or comparable just doesn't seem related to how much he is loyal at all

i guess him being similar makes it easier for they to trust and rely on each other? but even then they both have to rely on people like Nami and Sanji just to stay alive and continue their journeys, by themselves they would just be roaming around randomly and having to put their goals on hold to go after food

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u/normal_nerd_ Feb 19 '21

I don't understand how people can spend 900+ episodes with them and then hate one of them or say that the crew would be better off.

I've seen it a lot with the like of Usopp, Franky, and Brook which is just ridiculous and infuriating. Did we watch the same show even? Disliking them is fine, but it's usually way more heated than that.

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u/oranthor1 Feb 19 '21

Anyone saying usopp doesn't deserve to be a straw hat didn't watch the dressrosa arc. Anyone saying brook doesn't deserve to be a straw hat didn't watch the whole cake arc. Anyone saying franky doesn't deserve to be a straw hat hasn't seen the fucking sunny

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

That's what I'm saying! It's honestly unfathomable to me that it's possible for any Strawhat to be unlikable!

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u/BasedFunnyValentine Feb 19 '21

Not everyone has to like the entire crew

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u/YourLocalSnitch Feb 19 '21

Sanji leaves the crew so they don't end up working under Big Mom because Luffy's dream is to be the freest person in the world and to keep them out of danger These idiots: yeah he's unloyal

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

Totally 🙄

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u/thats_no_fluke Feb 20 '21

Did he not learned from Robin that doing this self-sacrificing shit doesn't work out with this crew? If Luffy declared war on the World Gov, you bet he'd do the same on a Yonkou. And Baratie has yet to be affected for some reason.

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u/DancingPenguinGirl Pirate Feb 19 '21

I hate when a straw hat is undervalued in comparison to others. To be a straw hat is more than just being on the same ship. Every one of them has proven that. I don’t care for any argument telling me how one is better than the other. That’s not how Luffy views nakama.

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u/sombrero69 Feb 19 '21

I'd argue that both robin and sanji saved the strawhats by leaving. The strawhats going after the enemy and making a plan is better for them than the enemy coming for them. Imagine the cp9 assasinating the strawhats at water 7 when they least expect it or the queen mama chanter ambushing the sunny at sea with the top brass going after the strawhats, they wont even need big mom to take them down. But that's all besides the point, all the strawhats would give their lives for luffy and he'd do the same to them

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

Exactly my point! 👏🏿👏🏿

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

Period. I see no lies, my friend 😌

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u/reddawn28 Feb 19 '21

The strawhats have their own personal dreams which when they joined they were kinda insistent they would carry out even no matter what their captain thinks. And somehow this has led to some collisions among the group. But over time and the more adventures they had the strawhats started to combine their dreams with luffy's and put their loyalties to their group. Even more than their personal dreams sometimes. Even nami who is one of weakest of the group and naturally one of the biggest cowards was presented with the option to denounce luffy's dream to save herself or risk dying and she refused to even lie about her captain's goal to become the pirate king. The loyalty of the strawhats wasn't created when they joined but from all the shit they have been through together and now they will lay down their lives and take on even the yonko for each other if they have to.

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

Say it louder 🗣🗣

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u/reddawn28 Feb 19 '21 edited Feb 19 '21

If some people say the strawhats weren't always loyal to the group then it is true. But almost every time there was some mutiny it was because one of them tried to tackle a personal problem on his own and couldn't bear to bring the crew to harm by dragging them into it. And they usually end up going way over their heads and the crew saves them and solves their problem together and they realized they were stupid for trying to do it alone in the first place. The strawhats all have their own demons to face and when they finally do it their loyalty to the group is stronger than ever and to themselves of course. The strawhats are still growing as characters and have their own personal baggages to unload but when they will they will be even closer than they are now.

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

YESSS😭😭 I love this explanation 👏🏿

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u/MyokoPunk Feb 19 '21

Well its tiktok, its a good metaphor for how shallow some peoples interest in shows are, and in addition how shallow their opinions are. A good amount of people, especially tiktok comments, opinions on anime are very surface level and basic. Not everyone can or will look at a show and really think about deeper meanings until they find a YouTube essay explaining it for them. Be it stupidity or laziness, not everyones opinion means something. This is condescending but im posting this cuz I used to get peeved at comments portraying series poorly, at least in my opinion. It gets to a point where you just ignore it because you can't and won't be able to educate all. People stick to their guns, especially the more shallow their investment is, and in stories it's often viewing series in frameworks they're most familiar with. So, they'll look at ussopp and Nami and see how they don't match with the most basic forms of loyalty and come to the stated conclusions. Nuance is dead or a foreign concept to some.

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u/OperationMelodic4273 Feb 19 '21

Be it stupidity or laziness, not everyones opinion means something.

I wanna make this my motto in life

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

You are totally right, I'm honestly starting to get to that point too 🙄🙄

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u/ImmaIvanoM Feb 19 '21

I can argue Zoro is the most loyal. I mean of course maybe we have different definitions of what “most loyal” means but I can argue it.

Think of it this way, Take a King, the King’s general and the General’s soldier. In time of a crisis, both the soldier and the general decide to put their lives on the line for the King. They are both offering one life, their own, so technically you can say they are equally loyal. But that’s not true. The general unlike the soldier has another option here. The general can just overthrow the king. Like instead of following the king’s orders to put his life on the line same as the soldier, the general can take it upon himself to overthrow the king. This is an option entirely NOT available to the soldier.

So do you see how I can say the General is in fact more loyal than the soldier even though technically both of them end up sacrificing their lives for the King.

Zoro is the only strawhat who is actively compared to Luffy. Even his introduction arc has him being the one to defeat the villain of the arc, have more infamy than Luffy and the situation Zoro is saved from is of his own making and not some big trauma based existential evil like every other strawhat. So yes, when someone who is comparable to Luffy shows loyalty to Luffy, it’s a bigger deal than when people who are below Luffy do it.

All the strawhats face Kuma and all of them refuse to give up Luffy. Good. But only ONE of the strawhats has the physical capability comparable to Luffy to also back it up. It matters that Zoro is strong enough to face Kuma similar to how Luffy had just faced another Warlord Moria and yet Zoro is still loyal to Luffy. The more the two are comparable, the more impressive it is that Luffy has Zoro’s loyalty.

Urouge said it himself after seeing Zoro, it’s more impressive that Zoro is under Luffy given Zoro’s general being and so Zoro’s loyalty means more than other strawhats. He becomes more loyal because their relative equity should give Zoro more reason NOT to be loyal in the first place.

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u/SolidB0NY Pirate Feb 19 '21

i think you're forgetting though that a lot of the straw hats have a lot more to get out of quitting the crew than Zoro

Brook's goal is to see Laboon. He could've easily achieved it already be asking for a tour on one the Blues and then going back to the Grand Line through Reverse Mountain. After that he has 50 years to catch up on the world and a solid musical career, he could even raise up the old motto of his crew and bring music to everywhere he goes. Instead he threw all that away to sail with Luffy to the ends of the world and back in the most dangerous situations possible against odds he doesn't even understand all that well since he is from way before even Roger was a big name.

Robin would be safer researching with the Revolutionaries and having them go get the poneglyphs for her to study after Luffy has been to Laugh Tale.

Nami could join with Big News Morgan to travel the whole world as a Neutral 3rd Party and map it with minimal risk, the only place she would need to go with Luffy is Laugh Tale but that's the last stop of the journey.

i could go on, but for the most part the Straw Hats could be safer going away from Luffy rather than supporting him closely, the only one who would need to be loyal most of the rough violent times is exactly Zoro because he needs strong opponents to push his skills.

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u/RagnarLothbrok2525 Feb 19 '21

All of the Strawhats are equally loyal to Luffy and the crew, and I loved Sanji’s development during WCI (what he went through, both the pain to keep the crew out of harms way, and the realization that no matter what the danger is, Luffy will still be there for him was masterful writing)

That being said, I wouldnt call Zoro the most loyal... but he is sort of Luffy’s “bro” (if that makes any sense haha both of them laughing at Pica’s voice serves as a perfect example for this).... just as reckless, FULL trust (reaching levels of blind trust) in Luffy, and an amazing level of respect for him as the Captain (his speech when Usopp left comes to mind). All of them have crazy love for Luffy, and they all want him to become the Pirate King, but I believe Zoro has the most respect for him as captain.

To summarize Luffy loves all of his Nakama with all his heart... but Zoro fills into the spot of his best friend (Luffy running towards him full with excitement at Wano was awesome)

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

Yes, Luffy and Zoro are one in the same, they complete each other. They met first too, so Zoro is a bit more used to Luffy than everyone else. Luffy and Zoro are the same person, Luffy is goofy and Zori is serious but when you put them together, jeez🤣🤣

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u/EZPZ24 Feb 19 '21

I disagree. Mr. 2 Bon Clay is by far the most loyalest Straw Hat. He died for Luffy like thrice.

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

😂😂 You right

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u/Paper_Okami The Revolutionary Army Feb 19 '21 edited Feb 19 '21

You're right.

People who try to elevate a strawhat over another straw hat just blatantly do not understand the dynamic of the crew. They are objectively all treated as equals and they are all just as loyal. But they have to have their favorite be the "most loyal". They don't compare about this very special crew dynamic they won't their favorite to be above the rest. Luffy treats every single member of his crew as equals to himself.

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

Thank you, I definitely agree with you.

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u/EnycmaPie Feb 19 '21

All the recruitment arcs of the Strawhat crew mates are at an important part of their lives. Without Luffy helping them at that moment, they would have been dead, or much worse off.

Zoro would be executed by the navy.

Nami would still be trapped drawing maps for Arlong.

Usopp would have been killed by Kuro.

Sanji would have been killed by Don Krieg.

Chopper would most likely be killed by Wapol. Or forced to work as his personal doctor

Robin and Franky would be executed by the Navy as well, with the blueprint of Pluton being taken by the World Government.

Brook will still be floating alone on his ship.

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

Indeed, although I'm pretty sure Nami would be dead right now too...

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u/PiratesVsDinosaurs Feb 19 '21

Arlong was never going to uphold the deal. Nami would go to war with Arlong and the whole town would fight too. Arlong would kill everyone and find a new town to terrorize. Luffy saved them all without a doubt.

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u/nomequeeulembro Feb 19 '21

Aokiji explained Robin let herself be caught, because she didn't want the CP9 going after the Strawhats. She probably knew how to avoid the CP9 and maybe would end up meeting the Revolutionaries eventually.

But not really, she would have been killed by Crocodile.

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u/SolidB0NY Pirate Feb 19 '21

she saw no reason to keep on living after not getting the answers she wanted in Alabasta. She might've just retired on a good case scenario

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u/triplod Feb 19 '21

Jimbe would still be locked up and potentially Executed.

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u/LittenInAScarf Feb 19 '21

Sanji would have been killed by Don Krieg.

Mihawk would have killed Krieg and his fleet, Sanji would have been fine, just living a life at the Baratie, as he wouldn't be public enough for Big Mom to get involved.

1

u/Oreo-and-Fly Feb 19 '21

We Fight Together basically.

The song montage for them all in the reason they join Luffy. So good.

21

u/cotsy93 Pirate Feb 19 '21

Sanji did what he did to Luffy out of his sense of loyalty, it's meant to be a parallel between his arc in WCI and Robin's arc in Water 7/Enies Lobby. He couldn't bear to see his friends hurt or killed on his account so tried to sever the most important bonds in his life at great personal and emotional cost.

Anyone who looks at Sanji's actions during WCI and thinks of him as disloyal just doesn't understand the purpose of the arc. All those other takes are just silly.

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u/Oreo-and-Fly Feb 19 '21

Plus his father was being threatened as well.

He can stay with the strawhats. They CAN fight it out with Big Mom... But his father, Zeff, who would've protected him?

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u/cotsy93 Pirate Feb 19 '21

Damn forgot about Zeff too. Poor Sanji in that arc holy shit. The scene where he overhears Pudding absolutely slamming him, the one good, hopeful thing that he could turn to during such a dark time really got me the first time I saw it.

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

THISSS. YESS😭

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u/OldTension9220 Feb 19 '21 edited Feb 19 '21

The ONLY crew member who left cause of some personal beef was Usopp and the rest of that saga was a demonstration of how hard Usopp was willing to work to earn his place back.

Also people STILL don’t trust Nami. Glad to know that people don’t have empathy for a young girl who was enslaved and was literally just finding any means to free herself and her people.

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u/MrDaebak Feb 19 '21

even the Ussop thing, it was basically about putting down a friend (the merry). I wouldnt consider it a loyalty thing. They are basically family. I dont know its kind of weird to measure everyone trough loyalty.

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

EXXACTLYYY. 🙌🏿🙌🏿🙌🏿

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u/OldTension9220 Feb 19 '21

Facts. Families have fights and I think the spat in Water 7 added a lot of color to the story. In fact if the world of One Piece wasn’t already so full and dynamic I think we would definitely have space for more inter-crew disagreements from time to time.

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u/Califa6300 Feb 19 '21

Absolutely. Every crew member has shown their dedication, unwavering loyalty and conviction to Luffy and his dream to be pirate king time and time again.

I cant bear when people say Nami would sell the crew for a cavern of gold where they completely ingore how much luffy saved her life countless times and she has also protected him and other crew members.

All of them believe he will be pirate king and he will help them make their dreams become true.

Camaraderie and friendship is the backbone of this series al9ng with the romance of adventure.

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u/sombrero69 Feb 19 '21

People ignore skypeia and how nami bets and believes in luffy.

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u/Rimaru482 Feb 19 '21

I agree, the amount of comments that I've seen that they haven't forgiven Usopp and that he shouldn't be on the crew anymore is ridiculous, Usopp leaving has just as understandable reasons to leave the crew as the others. All of them care for each other the exact same and all are loyal the exact same.

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

Precisely! Usopp leaving for a different reason then everyone else does not make him any less loyal!

4

u/CompControlled Feb 19 '21

The way I see it the entire crew is loyal but zoro, jinbe and Brook are more likely to take it to the next level, they have completely devoted themselves to Luffy.

Tje only betrayal I could see happening is chopper accidentally betraying them by being tricked.

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

I actually understand this. Those 3 have nothing else.to live for (cause Brook is already dead, YOHOHOHOHO) so they just dedicate their lives to Luffy, however this is not blind dedication, they still have their own brains and emotions.

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u/mehmeh5 Feb 19 '21

Thriller Bark pretty much screams "LOOK HOW LOYAL THE STRAW HATS ARE TO LUFFY" and drills the message into your head repeatedly (in a good way), so if you've gotten past that and still think they aren't............idk what show you've been watching

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

EX FREKAING ACTLYYYY

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u/Sarcastic_Skeptic The Revolutionary Army Feb 20 '21

I agree mostly other than zoro not being the most loyal. All of them are more loyal than most anime characters but after what zoro has repeatedly shown, especially nothing happened and BOWING TO HIS RIVAL for his captain I say he is the most loyal

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 20 '21

I mean yeah...you're not wrong, so I really can't say anything. 🤷🏿‍♀️

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u/sameljota Feb 19 '21

Based on some completely nonsensical comments I often see on the current chapters discussions, I always assumed there's a great amount of fans here that read the latest chapters without having read the entirety of the series so far. Or at least read everything on a binge-mode without paying much attention. It's the only explanation.

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u/RbTfr Feb 19 '21 edited Feb 19 '21

I sometimes see people bringing up that either they or someone they know are interested in the story and they ask which chapter/episode to start on, apparently wanting to skip parts (even major chunks) of the story. I even remember seeing a post where someone brings up that a friend of theirs thinks that it's perfectly fine to start the story from post time skip.

Or they want to catch up to the recent stuff by doing one or more of the following:

  • watching anime recap episodes and/or specials
  • watching some youtubers
  • playing the video games
  • some other improper method of trying to catch up

It seems as though there's people who think that One Piece can be started anywhere (like some typical TV series or a typical newspaper comic or something), instead of correctly thinking One Piece should be read/watched from the very beginning (like the Lord of The Rings story or something). And people who, for whatever reason, think that using sources other than the manga) anime is acceptable. And so, there's probably more people who didn't start One Piece at Chapter/Episode 1, instead starting from a much later point in the story or using other sources, than what is believed by the fandom.

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u/SolidB0NY Pirate Feb 20 '21

at most i think you can start on ep4 of the anime before going back to ep1, since they adapted the first chapter on episode four as a flashback

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

I wonder if they even bothered to watch the first episode

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u/Chango_D Feb 19 '21

The simple fact that they’ve all proclaimed that Luffy will be King says it all. Don’t let em get under your skin.

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

I try not too, but my One Piece heart really won't let me 😖

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u/adyfbi Feb 19 '21

They probably confuse loyalty with trust, if its trust I can see where they are comming from.

Zoro is the strawhat who trusts luffy and his strength the most.

If zoro was put in similar situation to sanji, he would have probably talked to luffy about it.

Sanji couldn't trust his captain's strength which lead to WCI. But sanji is a loyal and selfless, that's why he decided to sacrifice himself rather than risking his crew or Jeff die.

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u/aShadyPhoenix Feb 19 '21

Its not about trust. Its about reality. Unlike us who know strawhat have plot armor, Sanji doesnt. At that time, Luffy would have been obliterated by Big Mom.

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u/adyfbi Feb 19 '21

I don't know what else to call that emotion other than trust.

Having too much trust doesn't always mean it's a good thing. In case of zoro, you could consider it just recklessness, that might get luffy killed,like you said.

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u/rkunish Feb 19 '21

Blind faith is what I would use, but trust works too

Zoro has the most blind faith out in Luffy out of all of the Strawhats, but that's only because he's pretty much as insane as Luffy.

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u/SolidB0NY Pirate Feb 20 '21

Luffy confronting Big Mom still was a matter of time though, unlike Zeff. Zeff's head was also on the line and there was nobody who could help him out if things went sour.

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u/sombrero69 Feb 19 '21

I disagree and we have no way of knowing because zoro doesnt have anyone in his life right now who is important to him as zeff. Sanji was at a stand still there is literally nothing he could do to protect zeff all the way in east blue, that is if they managed to fend off big mom's wrath

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u/LordJinji Feb 19 '21

My namas Jeff. Seriously tho, Jeff the Cook?

3

u/PRIMETIMEBOXER Feb 19 '21

Usopp willing jumps in the lion's den multiple times. He wonders why he keeps doing it. That just goes to show the effect Luffy has on people.

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

Indeed! They are all willing to die for him and it SHOWS, it's pretty obvious too.

3

u/Nicole223 Feb 19 '21

Honestly I don’t think there’s a need to explain how loyal the crew are. If people can’t see it then that’s totally on them. Evidence shown are extremely obvious on the loyalty of all the strawhat. If people feel that sanji hitting luffy is deem disloyal, then I believe they are just narrow minded and definitely couldn’t enjoy one piece.

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

This is exactly right.

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u/ShinyDigiSaiyan Feb 19 '21

What you mean that not everyone knows that about 99 percent of the people on tiktok are retards who have lost all sense of reality and comprehension? It's just a little side effect of having the infamous TDS, nothing new to see over there.

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

LOL 🤣🤣🤣🤣 This is amazing

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u/getoutofyourhouse Feb 19 '21

Zoro is the least loyal.

He didn't do anything. Nothing happened

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

🤣🤣🤣

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u/TheRealBlues Feb 19 '21

Usopp has come closest to betrayal, imho. But he did it for reasons.

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

I wouldn't really call it betrayal of he was just standing up for his beliefs.

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u/TheRealBlues Feb 19 '21

Yeah, but he was disobeying his Captain to do so. Six of one and half a dozen of the other.

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u/Uneessh Bounty Hunter Feb 19 '21 edited Feb 19 '21

Why is saying "Zoro is the most loyal strawhat" a wrong(untrue) statement? This statement doesn't diminish the loyalty of any other strawhats nor it does ignite malice to a particular strawhats. The statement isn't dumbfounded either. Zoro is Luffy's firstmate, has always kept his back , sacrificed his life as well as pride for Luffy and never been a burden to Luffy's dream or other crew members. There is no measure of Loyalty but given what the series has shown, there is a reason why Zoro's loyalty stands out compared to others. And Zoro doesn't even boast about his strength or loyalty or anything to the crew. As I said, the statement doesn't hurt the SHs , it just shows that Zoro's loyalty has been shown more explicitly than others.

Taking the context of the Post, I'd understand that someone or many would try to diminish the SHs who have left the crew for personal reasons using Zoro as the standard but that also shouldn't diminish Zoro's loyalty to you either. Zoro being the most loyal strawhat isn't written in stone but is it really a problem if people think that because there is no reason they shouldn't. Hyping up Zoro's character because of his actions is a positive thing. It's just wrong to act as if there is no precedence for such opinions while correlating it to those who question other SHs loyalty .

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u/sombrero69 Feb 19 '21

Why is saying "Zoro is the most loyal strawhat" a wrong(untrue) statement?

Simply because it is not true. Zoro just had the flashiest moment which is why many have that opinion but at the end of the day, if laying down your dream and life for your captain is the highest measure of loyalty then every strawhat has done or will do that, hell Jinbe risked his life for luffy way before joining him

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

I understand what you are saying, and there are plenty of people who say Zoro is the most loyal to downplay the other Strawhats loyalty to the crew. And you're right, it doesn't affect the loyalty of the other Strawhats when saying Zoro is the most loyal, however it just really irks me when I hear that one Strawhat is more loyal than the other when I just feel that they all have a sense of loyalty that is equal and no one's is above anyone else's. They are all willing to die for each other and they are all willing to die for Luffy, no matter what it takes. I'm pretty sure if Zoro didn't knock Sanji out, he would have been the one to taken Luffy's pain and stole the show. But it's just how I feel.

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u/Uneessh Bounty Hunter Feb 20 '21

Pretty late reply, I just wanted to highlight what made "Nothing Happened" Truly special Zoro moment. It's not that Zoro took all of Luffy's pain that made it special, as you said any of the Strawhats would sacrifice for Luffy. But the thing is that only Zoro would survive after taking all of Luffy's pain. That's why Zoro knocked out Sanji, Sanji would die as it was shown that only Sanji was barely conscious and got knocked out by a simple sheath tap from Zoro . If Sanji took the pain and died that would be the biggest set-back for Luffy's dream as Luffy stated that he couldn't become the Pirate King without Sanji (and any of the SH). Zoro survived that ordeal and even didn't let Luffy find about it (Sanji respecting Zoro's sacrifice further emphasises my point). If stole the show means to die and become an eternal mental scar to Luffy and SHs then you are right Sanji would definitely steal the show from Zoro.

And I even feel like you are disrespecting Zoro as a character and that moment by saying Sanji would do that. That would be like saying Bigmom would have been stopped by just Pudding and Chiffon and Sanji just "stole the show" at that point.

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u/ramenweebsama Feb 20 '21

You've got me all wrong, I never meant to disrespect Zoro, I just wanted to showcase how Zoro wasn't the only one willing to die for Luffy's sake, but you are very right in saying that Zoro is the only one who would have survived that ordeal.

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u/pastab0x Citizen Feb 19 '21

Lol if anyone except Luffy can give orders to the crew in captain related matters its Nami, not Zorro. Apart from strength and bounty, Zorro has no captain quality. He's a fighting machine, not a captain. This is why he travelled alone before meeting Luffy, he is proud and a lone wolf, and this is why promissing Luffy he'd never lose again and beg Mihawk for training are such big deals. He could never have so much character growth as the captain, and he wouldn't have had earned such respect from his crew

Of course there is something that set Luffy and Zorro apart. They are both Supernovas. Which is determined by the bounty, which relys only on strength and threat. Chopper being a world class doctor does not make him a threat. Zorro being great at cutting stuff makes him a threat. If Urouge says that, it's because he is surprised that a supernova, who is capable of attacking a tennryubitto, would not be the captain of his crew. The purpose of that, according to me, is to highlight Luffy as a captain (someone worth being this guy's captain) rather than raise Zorro to Luffy's level

Again, the only one fit to give orders that are not discuted by anyone including Luffy is Nami. Nobody listens to Zorro except in emergency situation.

Zorro almost died from taking Luffy's damage. He's nowhere near as resistant as Luffy, and again, his state after that is to show how much Luffy can take and how strong he is, not show that Zorro is almost like him because he can take as much damage without dying. Zorro is the tough guy. Constantly training, strong, reliable. And yet he is below Luffy. See how strong Luffy is that he is above the tough guy? This is how it works, not the other way around.

Of course they are alike, they must have some common ground if they want to be friend. Just like Usopp, Luffy, Chopper and Brook are goofy, just like Zorro and Sanji are competitive with each other, and just like Jinbe and Robin are quiet and smart. Does that mean their and strength are the same? Of course not

And finally, Zorro being similar to Luffy, or even constantly being compared to Luffy, is not compelling enough evidence that he is the most loyal crewmate.

Yeah well just like these people can give arguments for Zorro being the most loyal crewmate, I can explain why these reasons are wrong, or out of subject. And Jesus, they are wrong!

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u/BeardGoneBad Feb 19 '21

Tik Tok anime fans are like the strangest breed of hype culture & trolls. It’s like 12-16 year old kids that have casually perused an anime or two due to hype. Unfortunately they just don’t care to understand the series on any level beyond that and in a few weeks might not even like anime at all anymore. They are truly detached from the material they are producing and the comments & content is pretty much bottom of the barrel when related to anime.

1

u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

It's true 😪

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u/sbsw66 Feb 19 '21

Who is saying this?

1

u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

People on the internet 🙄

2

u/raobj280 Feb 19 '21

This also needs to be said about Law, the amount of people who think Law will still betray the straw hats is ridicilous, its as dumb as people saying a straw hat will betray as well

3

u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

He already told Luffy that he wouldn't betray him and time and time again (although he regrets it) has shown how much he trusts the Strawhats and especially Luffy.

2

u/electricmastro Feb 19 '21

Even before Zoro ended up painting the ground red because nothing happened, him not wanting to betray Luffy to save himself along with the others when Kuma asked to have Luffy turned in showed their dedication to him that even the most stubborn disbelievers would acknowledge when looking at the big picture.

2

u/Popopirat66 Feb 19 '21

TikTok is garbage. Don't bother with people who watch 100 or less episodes and highlights on youtube.

1

u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

You ain't wrong 😒

2

u/LuffyDBlackMamba420 Feb 20 '21

Don't bring that TikTok nonsense in here. Nobody here believes that the crew isn't all equally loyal to each other.

2

u/ramenweebsama Feb 20 '21

Yessir 🙂

2

u/earthna Feb 20 '21

They are either trolling or just living miserable lives. Don't take to heart.

1

u/ramenweebsama Feb 20 '21

Lol🤣🤣 Okay

3

u/vinsmokewhoswho Feb 19 '21

Pisses me off when ppl twist shit around to fit der narrative. For example when ppl say Sanji abandoned the crew and disrespected the captain, then helped the enemy with a cake. I feel like those people either miss the point entirely or actually do the mental gymnastics to believe it.

1

u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

Like?! It makes no sense 😒😒

6

u/Prestigious12 Feb 19 '21

Is always the Zoro stans that try to downplay the others (in particularly Sanji) for what I have seen, is really annoying and in a way they are also so simplistic, they don't see to understand what was the point of their actions.

9

u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

It's true. While it's not all Zoro fan boys, the toxic ones are always reaching.

7

u/Prestigious12 Feb 19 '21

!!! Also some ppl just show how hypocritical they are like is ok for Robin to "betray Luffy" but still can't forgive Sanji/Nami or Usopp for the same thing... like... nvm.

4

u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

LIKE?!?! Y'all can't keep picking and choosing, it's Nerf or Nothing 🤨

4

u/YonkoKatakuri Feb 19 '21

I agree with the first part but the second is just your opinion.

So what you say so it's true, what others say it's false?

"IF YOU DON'T THINK LIKE I DO, GO RE-WATCH THE SHOW"

You don't even bring any arguments.

4

u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

That's not what I said. I stated that if you could not see that all the Strawhats are all ready to give themselves up and at the cost at their own dreams and life then they need to re-watch/read the show since they clearly weren't paying any attention.

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u/ImmaIvanoM Feb 19 '21

I can argue Zoro is the most loyal. I mean of course maybe we have different definitions of what “most loyal” means but I can argue it.

Think of it this way, Take a King, the King’s general and the General’s soldier. In time of a crisis, both the soldier and the general decide to put their lives on the line for the King. They are both offering one life, their own, so technically you can say they are equally loyal. But that’s not true. The general unlike the soldier has another option here. The general can just overthrow the king. Like instead of following the king’s orders to put his life on the line same as the soldier, the general can take it upon himself to overthrow the king. This is an option entirely NOT available to the soldier.

So do you see how I can say the General is in fact more loyal than the soldier even though technically both of them end up sacrificing their lives for the King.

Zoro is the only strawhat who is actively compared to Luffy. Even his introduction arc has him being the one to defeat the villain of the arc, have more infamy than Luffy and the situation Zoro is saved from is of his own making and not some big trauma based existential evil like every other strawhat. So yes, when someone who is comparable to Luffy shows loyalty to Luffy, it’s a bigger deal than when people who are below Luffy do it.

All the strawhats face Kuma and all of them refuse to give up Luffy. Good. But only ONE of the strawhats has the physical capability comparable to Luffy to also back it up. It matters that Zoro is strong enough to face Kuma similar to how Luffy had just faced another Warlord Moria and yet Zoro is still loyal to Luffy. The more the two are comparable, the more impressive it is that Luffy has Zoro’s loyalty.

Urouge said it himself after seeing Zoro, it’s more impressive that Zoro is under Luffy given Zoro’s general being and so Zoro’s loyalty means more than other strawhats. He becomes more loyal because their relative equity should give Zoro more reason NOT to be loyal in the first place.

1

u/ImASluttyDragon Feb 19 '21

What?? Zoro is the least loyal. In Fishman Island he literally told Luffy if he wasn't strong enough, he was planning to become the captain. That is literally mutiny. You just gonna skip over that fact?

5

u/ImmaIvanoM Feb 19 '21

But Luffy WAS strong enough. Zoro also told Luffy he’d leave the crew if he just let Usopp join no problem. That’s literally desertion, right? Which is another Naval crime like Mutiny. But then Luffy DIDNOT let that happen. So Zoro stayed because Luffy PROVED HIMSELF to him to be worth Zoro’s loyalty.

Loyalty isn’t some unflinching owed trait. Zoro wanting Luffy to prove himself to him isn’t a sign that Zoro isn’t loyal. It’s a sign he thinks very highly of what Luffy SHOULD BE CAPABLE OF. And Luffy always manages to step up. So Zoro’s faith is always validated and he ends up being even more loyal since Luffy managed to live up to the expectations he has.

Again, Zoro isn’t like the rest of the crew. That’s always been obvious. Him needing something more than Luffy simply saying “I’m you captain” without backing it up is the point. He’s too much like Luffy to just blindly follow him. But then similar to how Luffy is loyal as hell to people he cares about, Zoro is as well when he sees it’s worth it.

2

u/ImASluttyDragon Feb 19 '21

Everyone is saying Zoro is the most loyal, but did y'all forget the fact that in Fishman Island he told Luffy "You better be this strong, otherwise I WOULD BE THE CAPTAIN." Zoro literally said he was planning to commandeer the Strawhats if Luffy wasn't strong enough. Doesn't sound that loyal to me. On top of that, Zoro hates Sanji and Usopp and wanted them out of the crew permanently. If anyone is gonna betray Luffy it WILL be Zoro.

Downvote me because you know it's true.

2

u/keepin2002 Feb 20 '21

holding your leader to a high standard is being disloyal apparantly

1

u/PiratesVsDinosaurs Feb 19 '21

I noticed some people have issues with fully getting into a series. One Piece is long, and it would take new viewers lots of time to properly follow the story. Just tell them to re-watch the anime/manga few more times, and they will understand that every strawhat would 100% die for Luffy.

2

u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

I see what you mean, but I disagree. If someone has gotten as far as WCI then I'm pretty sure they are following and understanding the story pretty well. But I get it, it's kind of hard to get everything all at once especially when it's your first time watching/reading.

1

u/sakuaya Feb 20 '21

I just want to add on here that I was shaking when I read the part with Usoop and Nami in a near death experience with a certain female character recently*. This post reminded me of that chapter.

*Me trying not to give spoilers with this vague description

1

u/ramenweebsama Feb 20 '21

Don't worry, I'm a manga reader 😉 and yeah, when Nami said that I got WAYYY hyped bro 🤭🤭

1

u/Whole-Regret Feb 20 '21

We don't even need to look at individual feats of any of the strawhats to show their loyalty. Everyone deciding to get stronger for Luffy's sake and returning to Sabaody after 2 years is the biggest collective proof.

2

u/ramenweebsama Feb 20 '21

Precisely this!

1

u/4colour Prisoner Feb 19 '21

I read the entire series and I diagree with you. So you want me to read it again? And again? And again?

Why don't you present your argument instead? Telling me to READ IT AGAIN in all caps doesn't help.

2

u/Monobrobe Feb 19 '21

How about reading the other comments?

2

u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

You're right, I didn't present and argument. I wrote this at 2 A.M and was too lazy to think and this is all I could write. But do you mid telling me why you disagree?

-3

u/DaZ55 Feb 19 '21

zoro is literally the most loyal you cant argue about that. Ma dude literally wanted to give up on his life/dream so luffy could reach his. Sanji was also like zoro but WCI showed otherwise.

6

u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

You do forget that Sanji also offered his life before Zoro, but Zoro knocked him out, right? Zoro also got in the way of Eneru's El Thor back in Skypeia after already being heavily damaged so Usopp and Nami wouldn't get hurt and for WCI, I'm not even going to argue with you about that.

0

u/DaZ55 Feb 19 '21

i literally said that sanji wanted to offer his life like zoro did but zoro knocked him out yes but that he dared to attack his captain and not trust luffy to protect the crew from a yonko is just sad sanji became a joke after enies lobby it is what it is

3

u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

The fact that he was willing to go that far to protect them shows that he would do anything to make sure the Strawhats could go and achieve their dreams and goals even if it hurts him.

2

u/vinsmokewhoswho Feb 19 '21

Sanji went to WCI to protect Luffy and the crew because he didn't want them to get dragged in and go on with their lives. And let's not forget how every member of the crew is willing to die, most recently Nami when she said Luffy will be Pk to Ulti, when she could easily have lied to save herself. Jinbe was ready to die for Luffy before even becoming a Strawhat.

1

u/DaZ55 Feb 19 '21

why did he go before talking to luffy ? Doesnt he trust his captain? does he think luffy isnt able to protect his crew/friends from a yonko or whatever ? that was pretty low from sanji

1

u/vinsmokewhoswho Feb 19 '21

I dunno man. I don't think there was time really. Sanji did what he thought was best in that situation. I'm not saying he's perfect or anything but he always has his crew in mind. Zeff being threatened also put stress on him I reckon.

-7

u/Rais93 Feb 19 '21

As Oda has written them, many strawhat has a misconception of loyalty.

You know, after what happened to Nico Robin, i did not think Sanji could ever do a stupid thing like that, or more act like that in whole cake. I have really question on Sanji reasoning.

The only one that seem sane is Zoro and he has proven that too many times.

5

u/Oreo-and-Fly Feb 19 '21

Huh. Sanji is self sacrificial. He would do it for his family and friends.

2

u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

You do know the outcome of Sanji and Robin's situation would have been different, right? You see Robin didn't what her friends to get killed and dragged into her (ver huge) mess. Even though she would have died she went anyway. Sanji went because not only did they threaten to kill his friends, but his loving father figure to whom he owes so much. They could have also killed the Okamas on Kamabakka Island and even though Sanji would never want to see them again, he wouldn't want them to hurt cause of him. If Sanji didn't go everyone he loved would have either died or worked under Big Mom and Sanji knows how much Luffy would hate working under someone else so he took it upon himself to set things straight so the rest of the crew could continue on with their own lives,but I guess that was Sanji being stupid 🤷🏿‍♀️

0

u/MeddYatek Feb 19 '21

Good. Nobody ever said such a thing.

2

u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

You'd be surprised at the amount of people who would disagree...

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u/ExFavillaResurgemos Feb 19 '21

I love sanji when he's not simping. He actually uses his brain. Like when crocodile called Mr 3, luffy would just shout I'm the pirate king, zoro would just hang up. But sanji played it smart.

1

u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

Yup, that's my boy Sanji 🥰🥰

0

u/Grimmelhausen Feb 19 '21

You're wrong, but ok

4

u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

What did I say wrong?

1

u/Grimmelhausen Feb 19 '21

My bad, I read your post wrong

1

u/ramenweebsama Feb 19 '21

You good 😃👍🏿

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